sccsux Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I can just see George Osbourne in sequins - unfortunately And the image will stay with you till death:D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Whose lecturing and who put you on a pedestial and elected you the "knower of all things" on matters European? Does anyone else have the right to comment or do they need your special dispensation to do so? It's quite obvious you are anti-EU and that's your right to be but dont get your drawers on fire if someone else posts a comment or maybe people like you dont believe in freely commenting on matters that dont meet your approval mister high and mighty Unless every voter is thoroughly acqainted with the economic advantages of being in the EU or the economic consequences/advantages of withdrawing from the EU how are they in a responsible position to be able to vote on the issue. That is pretty lecturey is it not? I we said the power of the US economically and militarily is so great and affects so many countries (which is true) and the power invested in the US President so great that there should be a minimum level of knowledge about US influence on world affairs before a US citizen can vote in the Presidential elections I guess you would take that as both lecturing and interfering. You're arguing that the British people should not be allowed to have a referendum on our relationship with the EU because you don't percieve us to be educated enough to give the "right" answer. Pretty much the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANGELFIRE1 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Cannot fill in the yes, no question as I can't understand it. It should have been phased, Stay in the EU vote IN. Out of the EU vote OUT. That makes simple sense to me. So I vote OUT. Regards Angel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 The US is tied in with Europe in a big way. What happens in the EU and the decisions made in Brussels affect us all. One has only to look at the way the US stock market has behaved in the last few weeks as a result of the Euro crisis to realize the truth in this. The cause of the Euro crisis is the strapping together various disparate countries currencies based on fraudulent figures and then expecting them to all work in the same way, it was always going to fail. The current solution of suspending democracy for monentary autocracy in the Eurozone will only work if the people of the eurozone are prepared to accept that thier right to self determination should be permenantly sacrificed in order to allow a crazy system that sees the German and Greek economies trying to run a one size fits all set of fiscal and monetary policies to continue. I predict the first time a country (probably Greece) does come under sanction of the new rules it will just leave both the Euro and probably the EU or face popular revolt by it's people. It probably would be convenient for the US if they could ring up "europe" ask for the boss and get their views on whatever was on your mind. Just as it might be convenient for us to ring up an unelected Honduran in a fancy building in Chile and ask what "the Unitied Americas" view on x,y or z was. I doubt hiwever you'd wish to sacrifice your democratic rights for that convenience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampersand Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 And the image will stay with you till death:D. i'm dreading going to sleep tonight! I have scary enough dreams as it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 The cause of the Euro crisis is the strapping together various disparate countries currencies based on fraudulent figures and then expecting them to all work in the same way, it was always going to fail. The current solution of suspending democracy for monentary autocracy in the Eurozone will only work if the people of the eurozone are prepared to accept that thier right to self determination should be permenantly sacrificed in order to allow a crazy system that sees the German and Greek economies trying to run a one size fits all set of fiscal and monetary policies to continue. I predict the first time a country (probably Greece) does come under sanction of the new rules it will just leave both the Euro and probably the EU or face popular revolt by it's people. It probably would be convenient for the US if they could ring up "europe" ask for the boss and get their views on whatever was on your mind. Just as it might be convenient for us to ring up an unelected Honduran in a fancy building in Chile and ask what "the Unitied Americas" view on x,y or z was. I doubt hiwever you'd wish to sacrifice your democratic rights for that convenience. You could make the same argument about Yorkshire and London though. But we manage just fine with a crazy system of a single currency despite the differences in the economy between the two. The EU should be more democratic, but in principle there's nothing worse (and potentially a lot better) about a united europe with an elected PM or president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buck Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 That is pretty lecturey is it not? I we said the power of the US economically and militarily is so great and affects so many countries (which is true) and the power invested in the US President so great that there should be a minimum level of knowledge about US influence on world affairs before a US citizen can vote in the Presidential elections I guess you would take that as both lecturing and interfering. You're arguing that the British people should not be allowed to have a referendum on our relationship with the EU because you don't percieve us to be educated enough to give the "right" answer. Pretty much the same thing. So you're suggesting that every American voter needs to take a test on world affairs before he or she be allowed to vote? You don't know us very well do you. That was Britain's problem in 1776. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobgok23 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Out, totally out today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jez449 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Like wind - better out than in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 That is pretty lecturey is it not? I we said the power of the US economically and militarily is so great and affects so many countries (which is true) and the power invested in the US President so great that there should be a minimum level of knowledge about US influence on world affairs before a US citizen can vote in the Presidential elections I guess you would take that as both lecturing and interfering. You're arguing that the British people should not be allowed to have a referendum on our relationship with the EU because you don't percieve us to be educated enough to give the "right" answer. Pretty much the same thing. You seem to be under the illusion that all Americans are completely ignorant aboout European affairs. I would call it a case of presumptuous arrogance. Millions and millions of Americans have pensions and investments in 401Ks which are tied to the ups and downs of the stock market, mine included. A departure by the UK from the EU would definitely rock the boat in a big way not only for the London stock market but the British economy as a whole with unknown long term consequences across the Atlantic as well. In turn a complete collapse of the Euro would bring down Wall Street as well or at the least cause a drop very comparable in numbers to 1929. That means millions of Americans would see their lifetime investments and retirement nest eggs either drastically shrunk or vanishing like snow in July. I'm sure there is a very large segment of British voters who do understand the advantages/ disadavantages of continued EU membership but there are also the very many chronic xenophobes who cant see beyond their complete distaste of ancient enemies France and Germany as being the two main players in the EU and dont forget their votes would count also in any referndum on British membership. Unfortunately our economies are all tied together in a hellish bond of assured mutual destruction and that's what bothers me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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