Britain stays out of EU financial crisis deal

[convert]

Heaven forfend that Cameron should let his precious City banker chums be properly regulated or have their transactions taxed.

 

EU and properly regulated, you don't usually here that!!

 

I'll tell you what; when the EU finally publishes a set of accounts, and has them audited, the UK might re-consider.

[PeteMorris]

How can problems fundamentally caused by integration, be solved by further integration?

 

Excellent point! The problem with the Euro crisis is the Euro itself. It's never going to work! It was ill concieved, badly implemented and IMO no matter how much money you throw at it, or how much tighter the integration of those in it, it's still never going to succeed.

 

I personally don't like Cameron at all. But I have to say I salute him when he said this morning that we'll NEVER be part of the Euro.

[andygardener]

If you have 5 minutes, have a read of the link in my post above, written by someone far more intelligent than I, it deals with the veto point in some detail. It deals with the more complex arrangements and reading it it looks like things could get extremely complicated (if they weren't already!)

 

I have read through it and your mistaking inteligence for bias. That blog has a single aim, getting out of the EU, and it constantly attacks, well pretty much anyone and anything that is not demanding immediate total withdrawal.

 

As an example of why their analisys is based on gesture politics and not fact is the following:-

 

"I effectively wielded the veto" goes the Cameronian legend, from the lips of the hero himself, except he did no such thing. The statement, to which he ostensibly takes such great exception is a "Statement by the Euro Area Heads of State or Government". And unless you know different, Cameron is not a euro area head. He could not, on any account, veto a statement issued by a group of which he is not part.

 

Had Cameron bowed to Merkozys demands and allowed the proposed changes to be written into the EU Constitution, sorry Lisbon Treaty, then there would have been a statement by all EU heads, the "Statement by the Euro Area Heads of State or Government" was issued because of the British veto. This new treaty will be outside the EU and remain outside the EU unless and until agreements to safeguard the UK's interests are reached. That puts us in a very strong position to ensure that our trading position in europe is safeguarded while avoiding new EU taxes and regulation.

[truman]

Also a quick pedant mode note: Cameron hasn't vetoed anything. He has exercised the UKs right to opt-out of protocol and treaty change. He hasn't stopped anything.

 

By using the veto he has stopped any treaty being changed..as I understand it anyway..

[Vague_Boy]

Heaven forfend that Cameron should let his precious City banker chums be properly regulated or have their transactions taxed.

But who could bring in such regulation. I know, let's ask Gordon "light touch regulation" Brown:

 

“no inspection without justification, no form filling without justification, and no information requirements without justification, not just a light touch but a limited touch.”

LINK

 

Now, what was that you were saying about "banker chums"?

 

 

the uk is the financial centre of the EU. don't for one minute think that other eu nations are happy with this, especially france and germany. they want what we have.

The vast, overwhelming percentage of our 1000% of GDP debt is financial. If you look at the chart here, you can see that our financial sector related debt far exceeds any other nation.

 

Still think the French and Germans are jealous of the City of London?

 

The main reason the City is a big financial centre is that you can carry out deals there that would be illegal even in the US:

 

The US urged other countries to avoid a "race to the bottom" with new financial regulations – and pointed to the experience of the UK to show the dangers of experimenting with "light-touch" rules.

 

Tim Geithner, US treasury secretary, said the UK's strategy before the banking crisis had ended "tragically".

 

"The United Kingdom's experiment in a strategy of 'light-touch' regulation to attract business to London from New York and Frankfurt ended tragically," he said in a speech in the US.

 

"That should be a cautionary note for other countries deciding whether to try to take advantage of the rise in standards in the United States," Geithner added.

LINK

 

Light touch, why that takes us back to that superlative financial wunderkind, Gordon Brown.

 

VAT Man and the Boy Blunder are going to bring hardship and doom to the entire UK

I often wonder how Labour could ever have lost the last election. I mean, their handling of the economy was just soooo good.

 

Ed Balls apologises for failing to see crisis

 

Labour should apologise for the UK's economic mess [bBC News]

 

Gloomy Britons Blame Labour For Economic Slump, ICM Poll Shows

 

Do you know?

[xenia]

By all means tax the bankers, but dont let the money go to Brussells, our Banks, Our City of London Our Money.

 

 

but isn't it at our expense?. the banks are getting away with murder. by avoiding the raid on their still huge profits. with the country needing as much tax revenue as it can get, why should cameron back the bankers call to stop this?

[Stormy]

I have read through it and your mistaking inteligence for bias. That blog has a single aim, getting out of the EU, and it constantly attacks, well pretty much anyone and anything that is not demanding immediate total withdrawal.

 

As an example of why their analisys is based on gesture politics and not fact is the following:-

 

 

 

Had Cameron bowed to Merkozys demands and allowed the proposed changes to be written into the EU Constitution, sorry Lisbon Treaty, then there would have been a statement by all EU heads, the "Statement by the Euro Area Heads of State or Government" was issued because of the British veto. This new treaty will be outside the EU and remain outside the EU unless and until agreements to safeguard the UK's interests are reached. That puts us in a very strong position to ensure that our trading position in europe is safeguarded while avoiding new EU taxes and regulation.

 

I won't argue about the bias, maybe I should have mentioned that in my original post, although most blogs are written from one point of view or another. However, that doesn't mean that the authours aren't knowledgable about treaties and EU mechanisms and its the most detailed analysis I've seen so far, most of the stuff on the news is simply politicians parroting various party lines and press releases. There was some thoroughly irritating woman on the news a short while ago (a Lib Dem MEP although I didnt remember her name) who was pontificating about the whole affair, saying she was utterly devestated and was considering moving to Ireland in order to claim Irish citizenship to show solidarity with the EU and the Euro... If that is the level of coverage we get from the MSM then blogs are the only place to go.

[andygardener]

I won't argue about the bias, maybe I should have mentioned that in my original post, although most blogs are written from one point of view or another. However, that doesn't mean that the authours aren't knowledgable about treaties and EU mechanisms and its the most detailed analysis I've seen so far, most of the stuff on the news is simply politicians parroting various party lines and press releases. There was some thoroughly irritating woman on the news a short while ago (a Lib Dem MEP although I didnt remember her name) who was pontificating about the whole affair, saying she was utterly devestated and was considering moving to Ireland in order to claim Irish citizenship to show solidarity with the EU and the Euro... If that is the level of coverage we get from the MSM then blogs are the only place to go.

 

Again I personally would describe it as longwinded rather than detailed. It completely glosses over the fact that what has been proposed is outside the EU. Indeed it crows about how we have been relegated to impotant bystanders.

 

With no IGC, of course, Cameron is stuffed. For all his willy-waving, the changes are to be introduced though an "international agreement", the negotiations on which will be conducted without the presence of the UK. Cameron is not invited, and will not be a signatory.

 

There can be no demands for repatriation of powers, no veto and no referendum. Cameron has been relegated to the role of impotent bystander.

 

What it fails to point out is that we will be bystanders because we won't be affected by the terms of the treaty. If Germany wants to impose new taxes and give them to the EU, that's their call. If the Netherlands wants to allow the EU Commision powers over it's national budget, that's for them to decide. However all of this will be done by national legislation and any surrender of powers will be a unilateral decision by individual parliaments. Had we not vetoed the treaty then powers would have been granted to the EU commision to impose, as it stands it is for individual countries to surrender powers individually, none of which can be imposed on the UK.

 

What we will need to insist on and watch carefully is that the cost of administering any new powers granted unilaterally to EU instistutions which we fund are paid for by those members who have opted into the new powers and that EU budget money is not diverted to the new voluntary fiscal agreements.

[xenia]

The quotes from the Americans bear some scrutiny, they have always had their eye on taking over from London as the world centre of Financial Services. They would do anything to undermine the reputation of the City.

 

The bubble of 2007/8 originates in the US, it was the American government that allowed trillions to be loaned by the banks they should have been regulating, to people who had no chance to repay. I by no means absolve our government (Labour) from their responsibilities but to quote the Yanks as though they were pargons of virtue is is wrong.

 

But who could bring in such regulation. I know, let's ask Gordon "light touch regulation" Brown:

 

 

LINK

 

Now, what was that you were saying about "banker chums"?

 

 

 

The vast, overwhelming percentage of our 1000% of GDP debt is financial. If you look at the chart here, you can see that our financial sector related debt far exceeds any other nation.

 

Still think the French and Germans are jealous of the City of London?

 

The main reason the City is a big financial centre is that you can carry out deals there that would be illegal even in the US:

 

 

LINK

 

Light touch, why that takes us back to that superlative financial wunderkind, Gordon Brown.

 

 

I often wonder how Labour could ever have lost the last election. I mean, their handling of the economy was just soooo good.

 

Ed Balls apologises for failing to see crisis

 

Labour should apologise for the UK's economic mess [bBC News]

 

Gloomy Britons Blame Labour For Economic Slump, ICM Poll Shows

 

Do you know?

[Vague_Boy]

Millband just said on Sky there will be decisions made about our future that which we will be no part of.

 

Much like the referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon that was a Labour party election pledge in 2005.

 

I'm still waiting Tony....

 

We got an indication of what "having a say" means in the Eurozone with the fate of George Papandreou and his idea to give the Greek people a referendum on the EU's aid package.

 

Before you could say Papadopoulos, Papandreou was out on his ear and the referendum was dead in the water.