andyofborg Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 And perhaps an opportunist. everyones an opportunist given the opportunity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emma royd Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 i've never been asked my opinion when i've been on the street I think they only choose people who will give a sensible answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tardis Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 My guess is that this is all just a stage managed facade with an end result being predetermined. It is meant to evoke the sort of "hey look he is a man after all" reaction that it has in this thread as presumably in many other places. I am mildly amused by the gameshow, (they could make it seasonal and turn into a panto), though sadly not impressed by the bitty boys. "Look out he is behind you!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Cameron did the right thing but for the wrong reasons. He was protecting the city but the real reasons for not wanting to be a part of the euro-plus for the vast majority of people are around potential loss of sovereignty, about not wanting to be part of another experiment. not sure if he was just protecting the city, the balanced budget thing is quite dangerous really. i can understand why they have done it as it shows a resolve to get government borrowing under control and puts some limit on the exposure of french and german taxpayers to overspending countries. but depending how you define what does and doesn't count as part of the controlled deficit then it prevents the sort of keynsian reflating of an economy in recession, and if government won't provide growth and an economy in recession can't, by definition, provide growth then where does it come from? equally of course, if you can dress borrowing up as something outside of the controlled deficit then you haven't really done anything at all. everyone is that obsessed about the eurosceptic tories no seems to have noticed yet that the emperor has no clothes........ There is this perception now that we will be isolated for ever. I think that is nonsense. In the coming weeks and months we will move closer to Europe again - we will have to for the sake of British business to make sure we retain at the very least access to a free market. As for Lib Dem crowing today they've been given a special pass out to do some publicly visible moaning and whining. Behind the scenes they are as locked into the coalition as ever and bit by bit selling every core policy they ever held down the road. yes, this is just a bit of smoke and mirrors to distract everyone from the fact that this won't solve the current problem and that that conservative party is even more divided than ever on europe. i wonder if cameron would have used the veto had he not been in the coalition. europe almost destoyed the party in john major's time, without the lib dems to project the pro-europe stance then there would have almost certainly been an internal civil war within the tory party, this gives him a chance to just keep it to minor skirmishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 I think they only choose people who will give a sensible answer. i always give sensible answers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANGELFIRE1 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 he might be a fool, but he's no traitor By my reckoning of Clegg's actions, traitor fits him perfectly. (a person who betrays another, a cause, or any trust.) Just what he has done, IMHO. Regards Angel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emma royd Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 not sure if he was just protecting the city, the balanced budget thing is quite dangerous really. i can understand why they have done it as it shows a resolve to get government borrowing under control and puts some limit on the exposure of french and german taxpayers to overspending countries. but depending how you define what does and doesn't count as part of the controlled deficit then it prevents the sort of keynsian reflating of an economy in recession, and if government won't provide growth and an economy in recession can't, by definition, provide growth then where does it come from? equally of course, if you can dress borrowing up as something outside of the controlled deficit then you haven't really done anything at all. everyone is that obsessed about the eurosceptic tories no seems to have noticed yet that the emperor has no clothes........ yes, this is just a bit of smoke and mirrors to distract everyone from the fact that this won't solve the current problem and that that conservative party is even more divided than ever on europe. i wonder if cameron would have used the veto had he not been in the coalition. europe almost destoyed the party in john major's time, without the lib dems to project the pro-europe stance then there would have almost certainly been an internal civil war within the tory party, this gives him a chance to just keep it to minor skirmishes. You are probably correct. However the credit ratings of another 15 European Nations are under threat as we speak, just like ours was on the run up to the election. Things here are far from ideal but they would be a lot worse if the interest on our borrowings started to spiral as it has in Greece Italy Ireland etc. The tories may well be divided over europe and they may well be divided from the libdems on the subject. The fact remains that Camerons stance was hugely popular with the British electorate with support from voters of all parties. You need to remember that several other countries are set to join the Euro and most have crippling debt propped up by IMF loans. When the Eurozone collapses inwards what happened last week will take on huge significance, and could probably even determine who wins the next general election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 but depending how you define what does and doesn't count as part of the controlled deficit then it prevents the sort of keynsian reflating of an economy in recession, and if government won't provide growth and an economy in recession can't, by definition, provide growth then where does it come from? This is what perplexes me. Why is the euro-plus locking in a particular economic approach. Fiscal stimulus done properly in a recession can be a good thing. I'm talking here about bang for the buck infrastructure projects where for every pound spent a pound is added to GDP and a lasting economic legacy remains in terms of upgraded infrastructure. There is no reason not to do that kind of thing - some bloke from Fitch said on the TV recently that the markets would actually support that kind of thing. The anti-Keynesian stance locked into legal agreements is insanity IMO. There will be times when it is genuinely needed but legally can't be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sccsux Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 2 Pull out of the coalition and face 5 years as a minor opposition party with just a handful of Mps getting returned to Parliament. Why five? The current parliament only has another three years left to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 When the Eurozone collapses inwards what happened last week will take on huge significance, and could probably even determine who wins the next general election. if (when?) the eurozone collapses what happened last week will be irrelevant and no one will even mention it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.