Some good news at last.

[Shogun]

I was brought up in a very religious family of protestants, as a kid I went to Sunday school and studied the bible,but the stories in the bible always confused me though,Im not surprised that religion is in decline it must seem fusty and old nowadays to most young people.the church is not in tune with modern society, at one time the church was the center of society,people are more educated now and they don't believe in life and death and the devil and things, scientific evidence can prove things now that the people put down to the workings of God in the past,I must admit that my belief has waned a bit but I would not like to think that I did not still have the love of God in me,I have no time for religious maniacs and people who try and push there religious beliefs on other people every one should be free to practice there own belief as long as it does not interfere with other peoples life's and freedom.

[janie48]

nobody should feel bad because they sometimes have difficulty in expressing their faith.

a feeling and sense of a higher power who we can't visualise is difficult even for ourselves to comprehend.

[Harleyman]

Maybe, maybe not. Either way, this is a discussional forum and wouldn't really work if nobody asked questions and discussed things.

 

Should the good samaritan have minded his own business?

 

But you do admit that some of the anti-Christian rants by other atheists are a form of intolerance.... Right ?

[quisquose]

You've already ridiculed another post by buck. What gives you the presumptuous arrogance to assume that there is no evidence of a creator of any sort. Go ahead and prove there isn't or climb down from your high horse.

Give me some hard scientific evidence to back your assumption and I might just join you.

 

I seriously thought his first post was a joke. When he/she said "In all the known galaxies, only one planet so far has ever been known to support life. The ingredients for this are air and water. For warmth wood and coal, then oil and electricity. For creation fairly even numbers of male and female. A superb feat of engineering by any standard. First we try gigantic animals like dinosaurs, figure out they don't fit the plans then get rid of them. Overstock then start a few wars to clear out some. While evolution has something to do with it, you can only evolve from a base, so who or what created that?" it reminded me of the sort of thing atheists say when they parody theists.

 

"Go ahead and prove there isn't (a creator) or climb down from your high horse" is another.

 

It was only when he went on his/her rather insulting rant about "aggressive atheists" living "dismal lives in a dismal city" that I realised he/she was serious.

 

It's quite telling to hear terms like "aggressive", or "militant" or "arrogant" against people merely for holding a different view. Oh for the good old days eh, when dissenting views could be extinguished quite permanently?

 

Anyway, back on topic. As I've said on numerous occasions, I don't have any issues with theism or atheism, except for an interesting discussion point over a pint of beer. The problem is dogma. Many theists try to argue against atheism as if it is equivalent to religion, which is disingenuous.

 

I've defended you in the past on threads about the country where you reside. I have visited many times. Some of the best, most enlightened, men on the planet created it, and in the last 60 years religious dogma has undermined those fine principles. It's a secular county, and yet an atheist has no chance of running for office. Jefferson must be turning in his grave.

 

I think it's good news that religion is on the decline, but I would defend to the death peoples right to believe whatever nonsense they want.

[janie48]

I was brought up in a very religious family of protestants, as a kid I went to Sunday school and studied the bible,but the stories in the bible always confused me though,Im not surprised that religion is in decline it must seem fusty and old nowadays to most young people.the church is not in tune with modern society, at one time the church was the center of society,people are more educated now and they don't believe in life and death and the devil and things, scientific evidence can prove things now that the people put down to the workings of God in the past,I must admit that my belief has waned a bit but I would not like to think that I did not still have the love of God in me,I have no time for religious maniacs and people who try and push there religious beliefs on other people every one should be free to practice there own belief as long as it does not interfere with other peoples life's and freedom.

 

 

i agree with much of you say,but scientific advances have not provided evidence that God does not exist.

[Bulgarian]

Baring that in mind is it possible that this consciousness is a manifestation created by your mind to explain things you can’t explain.

 

Probably not.

[quisquose]

But you do admit that some of the anti-Christian rants by other atheists are a form of intolerance.... Right ?

 

intolerance : unwilling to grant equal freedom of expression : unwilling to grant or share social, political, or professional rights : bigoted

 

No sorry, you're wrong.

 

Robust argument, disagreement, yes, but what's wrong with that?

 

For real intolerance of religious beliefs it requires dogma. Usually an alternative religious belief, but certainly not theism or atheism alone.

[Tony Erikson]

i agree with much of you say,but scientific advances have not provided evidence that God does not exist.

 

Jesus Christ! How the hell can you provide evidence something doesn't exist. Science has no need for god so has no need to either prove or disprove his existence. It's religious people and people of faith that the "Burden of proof" lies with. It's not up to the people who don't believe to disprove. It's up to the people who claim that god does exist to prove it. Any person who claims "Go ahead, prove god doesn't exist" is simply a moron and deserves to be treated as such.

 

Only with god are people asked to prove doesn't it exists and only believers in god don't seem to understand what a ridiculous thing they are asking.

[TaxiBaz]

I don't believe in god. I don't intend, or ask, people to prove he does.

That's their decision, whatever religion.

I tried to make a similiar post in the 'Council Meeting Prayers' thread last night.

 

Perhaps if we all had more respect for people with beliefs, and spent less time

trying to get them to 'prove' them, there'd be less arguments.

 

That of course works 2 ways, don't shove your belief at me.

[Harleyman]

I seriously thought his first post was a joke. When he/she said "In all the known galaxies, only one planet so far has ever been known to support life. The ingredients for this are air and water. For warmth wood and coal, then oil and electricity. For creation fairly even numbers of male and female. A superb feat of engineering by any standard. First we try gigantic animals like dinosaurs, figure out they don't fit the plans then get rid of them. Overstock then start a few wars to clear out some. While evolution has something to do with it, you can only evolve from a base, so who or what created that?" it reminded me of the sort of thing atheists say when they parody theists.

 

"Go ahead and prove there isn't (a creator) or climb down from your high horse" is another.

 

It was only when he went on his/her rather insulting rant about "aggressive atheists" living "dismal lives in a dismal city" that I realised he/she was serious.

 

It's quite telling to hear terms like "aggressive", or "militant" or "arrogant" against people merely for holding a different view. Oh for the good old days eh, when dissenting views could be extinguished quite permanently?

 

Anyway, back on topic. As I've said on numerous occasions, I don't have any issues with theism or atheism, except for an interesting discussion point over a pint of beer. The problem is dogma. Many theists try to argue against atheism as if it is equivalent to religion, which is disingenuous.

 

I've defended you in the past on threads about the country where you reside. I have visited many times. Some of the best, most enlightened, men on the planet created it, and in the last 60 years religious dogma has undermined those fine principles. It's a secular county, and yet an atheist has no chance of running for office. Jefferson must be turning in his grave.

 

I think it's good news that religion is on the decline, but I would defend to the death peoples right to believe whatever nonsense they want.

 

I dont know if Jefferson is turning in his grave or not. Many of the founding fathers were Freemasons I do know.

 

There's nothing to stop an athiest running for office of president except needing a lot of money and backing.

He may not do very well in Iowa where the GOP are presently selecting their favourite to run agaiinst Obama but Iowa is only a part of America not a whole representation of it or how voters in general feel.

 

I agree that religion has come to play too much of a part in politics and too many voters, particularly Republican are beginning to associate it with what the necessary qualifications should be for presidential office while forgetting the separation of church and state.

 

I can only speak for myself but if an athiest candidate could deal with the real bread and butter issues and the other problenms we are now facing in an effective manner which would better us all I would have no hesitation in voting for that candidate.

 

That person would have to be a debater of exceptional quality as his opponents would throw religion at him at every turn during the campaign and I'm pragmatic enough to know that religion is not and should not be an issue in selecting a leader but many others seem to think it is.

 

 

 

If Christianity is on the decline it's eventual demise wont do anything to better the western world. It's another religion that has been hijacked by dangerous extremists which is the real problem these days and the option of atheistic thought and belief amongst it's members is not tolerated nor likely to be anytime in the foreseeable future