Its time for the Catholic Church to close..

[sccsux]

Then all it should take is the removal of those at the top.

 

They're only responsible for the cover ups. The offences were committed by lower ranks, and covered up from there to the highest levels. The whole catholic church is rife with corruption.

[Harleyman]

They're only responsible for the cover ups. The offences were committed by lower ranks, and covered up from there to the highest levels. The whole catholic church is rife with corruption.

 

That could be said of any great institution religious or commercial. Look at Rupert Murdoch and his media empire for example. Bugging phones, bribing police etc. Will Murdoch's media empire be "closed" as a result.

 

Did the whole Administration in Washington get thrown out of office when Nixon and some of his inner circle got busted over Watergate?

 

The Catholic church probably needs to swing the axe a bit more to clean out the culpable but "closing" it ?

 

Only christian hating atheists of the extreme kind could come up with a dopey suggestion like that.

[Harleyman]

You are a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena therefore there is little you can contribute to a debate about God. I accept your position which can never change, there can be no proof either way of something that as no group definition, on the other hand if someone gave a comprehensive definition of God without constantly changing said definition then it may be possible to disprove it exists outside of the human mind. For instance a omnipotent entity having unlimited power; able to do anything, can be proven not to exist.

I accept that God exists just like love and hate exist in the mind of the individual. Love, hate, fear and God are all beyond an excepted group definition because they are all constructs of an emotional mind. Each person will define them differently and act on those feeling differently.

 

Much my line of though being an Agnostic which is a lot different from being an Atheist who has already firmly established in his mind that there could be no such thing as god but yet in no way can prove it conclusively. There's the difference between an open mind and a closed mind. Much like the closed minded voter who can only vote for one politicial party because in his mind it's the "right party" even though that party might have completely buggered up the country while in power.

 

I've never read the bible except parts of it in my far away school days when religious instruction in British schools was compulsory but I've come to the conclusion that much of what's said in that book is the invention of mankind.

 

There may well have been a person named Jesus who lived over two thousand years ago but as for turning water into wine, raising the dead or rising from the dead himself that is obviously hard to swallow.

Much of religious belief is therefore man made and nothing to do with God if he/she exists.

 

Like everyone else I've though about these things over the years and it would be dumb of me to say I never had a theory of my own on the origins of life on earth. As much as it's worth, if anything, I tend to think that life on earth just may have been engineered by visitors or a visitor from another part of the universe billions of years ago. There may well have been civilisations on far flung planets which even then were light years ahead of ours today scientifically and technology wise. Certainly it would be stupid to assume that our planet was the only one out of millions and millions to have reached a level of advanced thought and civilisation

 

Anyway to get down to earth I will continue to believe that religion and the inspiration gained from the belief and faith in that religion played a great part in the development of European civilisation. It inspired scholars to write works and much later eventually led to the establishment of great places of learning such as Oxford and Cambridge. It also established a code of decency to live by which I admit was often abused by unscrupulous individulas with a thirst for power but these were individuals only and it's unfair and short sighted to see that as the fault of religion as a whole. For every rascal there were many that did and even today continue to do a lot of good for our society

[altus]

That could be said of any great institution religious or commercial. Look at Rupert Murdoch and his media empire for example. Bugging phones, bribing police etc. Will Murdoch's media empire be "closed" as a result.

 

Did the whole Administration in Washington get thrown out of office when Nixon and some of his inner circle got busted over Watergate?

 

The Catholic church probably needs to swing the axe a bit more to clean out the culpable but "closing" it ?

 

Only christian hating atheists of the extreme kind could come up with a dopey suggestion like that.

The organisational hierarchy of world wide organisation, one which was supposedly trustworthy enough to run childrens' homes and schools, covering up child abuse over several decades and even moving perpetrators about enabling them to abuse again is somewhat more serious than hacking a few voice mail boxes.

 

If a secular organisation had been found guilty of such abuse, the police would have been crawling all over it looking for evidence of further abuse. The catholic church gets to produce it's own reports on what has happened.

 

When the pope issued new guidance to the church hierarchy about reporting such incidents he notably failed to include two steps:- a) report it to the local authorities at the earliest opportunity and b) cooperate fully with their investigations. The fact that it included neither of those convinces me the catholic church is still more concerned about protecting it's own reputation than protecting children.

 

I simply can't understand how catholics can bare to remain attached to the church of Rome after the revelations of the last few years. There are other christian denominations.

 

I don't think the catholic church should be closed down - I think it's followers should desert it. I'd be quite interested to know why they don't.

[MrSmith]

Much my line of though being an Agnostic which is a lot different from being an Atheist who has already firmly established in his mind that there could be no such thing as god but yet in no way can prove it conclusively. There's the difference between an open mind and a closed mind.

 

How could I possibly come to a conclusion that a God does or does not exist when I have no idea what a God is? I have been given hundreds of definitions of God from many different people therefore I have formed the opinion that whatever God is it must exist only in their mind.

[Harleyman]

The organisational hierarchy of world wide organisation, one which was supposedly trustworthy enough to run childrens' homes and schools, covering up child abuse over several decades and even moving perpetrators about enabling them to abuse again is somewhat more serious than hacking a few voice mail boxes.

 

If a secular organisation had been found guilty of such abuse, the police would have been crawling all over it looking for evidence of further abuse. The catholic church gets to produce it's own reports on what has happened.

 

When the pope issued new guidance to the church hierarchy about reporting such incidents he notably failed to include two steps:- a) report it to the local authorities at the earliest opportunity and b) cooperate fully with their investigations. The fact that it included neither of those convinces me the catholic church is still more concerned about protecting it's own reputation than protecting children.

 

I simply can't understand how catholics can bare to remain attached to the church of Rome after the revelations of the last few years. There are other christian denominations.

 

I don't think the catholic church should be closed down - I think it's followers should desert it. I'd be quite interested to know why they don't.

 

It seems that is happening in the Anglican church and in England particularly. Appointing women priests and gay bishops didn't do them much good either. That's what comes of trying to be progressive

 

Didnt the above also create a serious split in the Anglican church throughout the world and the African church threatening to break away completely?

 

As for the Catholic church I predict it's demise will occur if it even does, a long. long time after the complete demise of the Anglican church in England (but not necessarily the demise of the Anglicans in the rest of the world)

 

The Church of Rome still has a very strong following in the heavily populated south and central American countries and a large percentage in the US since the new Americans of south American and Peurto Rican descent have now surpassed black Americans as the largest ethnic minority in the US and are just about all members of the Catholic faith.

[MrSmith]

Much my line of though being an Agnostic which is a lot different from being an Atheist who has already firmly established in his mind that there could be no such thing as god but yet in no way can prove it conclusively. There's the difference between an open mind and a closed mind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

How does believing that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena give you an open mind, I would say your mind is closed on the subject.

[RootsBooster]

Much my line of though being an Agnostic which is a lot different from being an Atheist who has already firmly established in his mind that there could be no such thing as god but yet in no way can prove it conclusively. There's the difference between an open mind and a closed mind.

 

Your definition of atheism does not speak for all atheists. There are several variations on the definition of what an atheist is, the most common one being that an atheism simply does not believe in the existence of gods. Most agnostics are by default Agnostic-Atheist, ie they currently are not convinced of the existence of God so currently don't believe in God.

 

I don't consider myself an atheist but technically I do qualify as one, I have no reason to believe in gods. For me it's even simpler than that though, as an apatheist it doesn't matter to me whether or not any gods exist. If proof was given, of course I would accept that gods/God exists, but it still wouldn't matter to me. Millions of people have lived good lives being good people throughout the ages without any belief in any deities therefore what does it matter. People of faith don't seem to fair any better than people of reason.

 

EDIT: If a god was angry at me for not believing in him/her through no fault of my own (he/she obviously made me this way and never contacted me or made his/her presence known) then so be it, I will have to take what's coming.

[RootsBooster]

How does believing that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena give you an open mind, I would say your mind is closed on the subject.

 

I have to agree, Harleyman's mind seems to be very closed on how atheists think also.

 

EDIT: I read Mr.Smith's post wrong. Harleyman seems to have a closed mind on atheists, but I don't think what Mr.Smith says here is correct.

[LeMaquis]

The Catholic church probably needs to swing the axe a bit more to clean out the culpable but "closing" it ?

 

Only christian hating atheists of the extreme kind could come up with a dopey suggestion like that.

 

As a Christian-hating atheist of the extreme kind I'm opposed to banning any religion as people should be free to believe whatever superstitious rubbish they want to believe. I'd like to know how a religion can be banned anyway. I think the OP has made it clear he believes in God and so is hardly an atheist. Most Catholic-haters I've come across have been Protestant, not atheist.