altus Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 So what? What's your point? If Christmas is really supposed to be celebrating the anniversary of the birth of Jesus it should be on 5th January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balpin Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 If Christmas is really supposed to be celebrating the anniversary of the birth of Jesus it should be on 5th January. Why is that then? To avoid this question and answer process, it would be more convenient to supply the info you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vague_Boy Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Where is your evidence for this? You are speculating here. Nope. What is the TRUE ORIGIN of Christmas? Where did it come from? Did you know Yeshua the Messiah was born nowhere NEAR December 25, but that was the "birth day" of the sun- god, "Sol Invictus" or "Mithras"? Did you know December 25 was the concluding day of the pagan winter festival called the "Saturnalia"? Where did "Santa Claus" come from? The "Christmas tree"? How did this pagan feast become connected with "Christianity"? Here is an amazing "whale of a tale"! Although the whole world celebrates Christmas as a "Christian" holiday, including millions of non-Christians, is Christmas really "Christian" at all? Consider this fact: Look high and low throughout the pages of the Bible, and you will find not ONE WORD of "Christmas" being celebrated by any of YEHOVAH's people! It is not even mentioned once! Neither the Messiah nor any of his apostles ever observed this holiday, nor the New Testament Church! Yet on the other hand the pagan, heathen world observed this day for thousands of years before the Messiah was even born! Where did the mysterious rites and ceremonies that surround this day come from? What about the "Christmas tree" and the "Yule log" and the mistletoe and Holly wreaths? Are ANY of these customs truly "Christian" in origin? And what about fat and jolly old "Saint Nick" -- or Santa Claus? It's high time we addressed these questions, and took a new look at "Christmas." A church I was formerly a member of, which condemned Christmas observance as paganism, for almost sixty years, today has turned its back on its former beliefs, and encourages its members to observe this pagan mid-winter festival "in honor of Christ"! Many are doing so, heedless of the severe warnings in Scripture of what their eternal fate and destiny will be if they continue to embrace this ancient custom. Is it wrong to celebrate "Christmas"? What is the truth about this popular and widespread holiday? The Origin of Christmas Before one gets carried away with Christmas worship, there are a few things you should know. Let's take an honest and objective look at the origins of this holiday. We read in Werner Keller's book The Bible as History the following admission: "December 25 is referred to in documents as Christmas Day in A.D. 324 for the first time. Under the Roman emperor Justinian [A.D. 527-565] it was recognized as an official holiday. An old Roman festival played a a major part in the choice of this particular day. December 25 in ancient Rome was the 'Dies Natali Invictus,' 'the birthday of the unconquered,' the day of the winter solstice and at the same time, in Rome, the last day of the Saturnalia, which had long since degenerated into a week of unbridled carnival..." (p. 331). Doesn't it seem rather strange that the so-called "Christian church" should choose a day to celebrate the Messiah's birth which was identified as the day of the birth of the unconquered sun, the day of the winter solstice, the "shortest day of the year," when the sunlit part of the days start becoming longer again? What does this have to do with the Messiah, anyway? Was Yeshua the Messiah born anywhere near December 25? Keller goes on: "Meteorologists as well as historians and astronomers have something of importance to contribute to this question of fixing the date of the birth of Jesus. According to St. Luke: 'And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night' (Luke 2:. "Meteorologists have made exact recordings of the temperature at Hebron. This spot in the southern highlands of Judah exhibits the same climatic conditions as Bethlehem, which is not far distant. The temperature readings show over a period of three months that the incidence of frost is as follows: December -- 2.8 degrees; January -- 1.6 degrees; February ---0.1 degrees. The first two months have also the greatest rainfall in the year: approximately 6 inches in December, and nearly 8 inches in January. According to all existing information the climate of Palestine has not changed appreciably in the last 2,000 years, consequently modern meteorological observations can be taken as a basis. "At Christmas-time Bethlehem is in the grip of frost, and in the Promised Land no cattle would have been in the fields in that temperature. This fact is born out by a remark in the Talmud to the effect that in that neighborhood the flocks were put out to grass in March and brought in again at the beginning of November. They remained out in the open for almost eight months. "Around Christmas-time nowadays both animals and shepherds are under cover in Palestine. "What St. Luke tells us points therefore to the birth of Jesus having taken place BEFORE the onset of winter..." (p. 331-332). LINK Is Christmas Christian? Is Christmas a Pagan Festival? The Mystery Of The Pagan Origin Of Christmas: Jesus Was Not Born On December 25th But A Whole Bunch Of Pagan Gods Were Best guess for Jesus Christ Date of birth is 4 BC 'Jesus was born in June', astronomers claim Although Balpin, of all posters, "demanding" evidence has given me one of the biggest laughs of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Christmas and Ramadam have lost their way completely. They have both become orgies of stuffing and gorging. They are a disgrace to their origins. One things for sure, I will feel more disgraceful this Christmas than I will at Ramadan, so Muslims pull yer finger out. While they're at it the Jews, Sikhs, Buddhists, Pagans can follow their lead. We need more public holidays, celebrations, big family gatherings, more present swapping and more consumption of fine foods and alcohol. Think what it would do for the economy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balpin Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Nope. Although Balpin, of all posters, "demanding" evidence has given me one of the biggest laughs of the year. Certain of us, and on here they are in the majority, know we are right all the time. If you are unsure of yourself, then to go with guns blazing is the only attitude. Merry Christmas BTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altus Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Why is that then? To avoid this question and answer process, it would be more convenient to supply the info you know. I already did - see post 65. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balpin Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 I already did - see post 65. If, as we all seem to be agreed, that His birth was at the soltisce, then why is it not the 21st. Why the 25th? Even the tree loving pagans must have an answer for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonetwo90 Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 If Christmas is really supposed to be celebrating the anniversary of the birth of Jesus it should be on 5th January. Why? The day is symbolic. The fact that we celebrate the birth of a man that brought a message of love and peace is what's important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balpin Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Why? The day is symbolic. The fact that we celebrate the birth of a man that brought a message of love and peace is what's important. Absolutely spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Why? The day is symbolic. The fact that we celebrate the birth of a man that brought a message of love and peace is what's important. Is it though? It seems far more important for the vast majority of people just to have a little time off, see their family, and eat/drink loads. No-one really cares about Jesus. For these reasons I absolutely don't feel left out at Christmas as someone with no religion. Celebrating his alleged birth is certainly not what's important about Christmas to the vast majority of people, in this country, and worldwide. You're kidding yourself if you pretend otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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