Economics thread. Have you had enough of wizard of oz monetary scientists?

[MrSmith]

No. I am saying the VAST MAJORITY of Africans are unable to get themselves out of poverty.

 

 

 

Yep!

 

 

 

This is such a load of rubbish. Africa has been colonized, under-developed, and raped by western powers. Democracy has been systematically undermined by western leaders who have installed dictators and warlords friendly to western interests. Those dictators have borrowed money in the name of "the people" only to funnel it in to private bank accounts and leave the people to carry the can. The African nations have often paid their debt many times over but are forced to pay obscene compound interest on such a burden under the threat of military force. Go away and do some homework instead of just believing whatever it takes to help yourself sleep a night.

 

and if someone doesn’t have the means to feed their children they shouldn’t have children.

 

Many women in Africa do not have the same choices that we have in the west. Women have little access to birth control and often get raped.

 

If you feel so strongly about the poor of the world why are you wasting your time and money using a computer, when you could be there helping them.

[ultimatesens]

So the bottom line would be to either lock up or execute anyone that didn’t want to play ball, that’s much better than the system we have now. It would solve one of the problems of overpopulation

 

You'd like that wouldn't you MrSmith. Going round executing people. Your clearly sick in the head. Overpopulation is a total myth, propagated by soul-less rich people who want the entire world for themselves.

 

http://www.economist.com/node/14744915?story_id=14744915

 

but I don’t think today’s poor would benefit much because they would probably be the ones that wouldn’t work.

 

The poor are the ones that work the hardest. Like all fascists you only see what you want to see. All the people working in sweat shops making your clothes and serving you meals and cooking your food. They are all POOR people. All the people sat around eating, discussing things, playing golf and throwing wild yacht parties, they are all RICH people. Your self deception seems to know no bounds.

[MrSmith]

You'd like that wouldn't you MrSmith. Going round executing people. Your clearly sick in the head. Overpopulation is a total myth, propagated by soul-less rich people who want the entire world for themselves.

 

http://www.economist.com/node/14744915?story_id=14744915

 

 

 

The poor are the ones that work the hardest. Like all fascists you only see what you want to see. All the people working in sweat shops making your clothes and serving you meals and cooking your food. They are all POOR people. All the people sat around eating, discussing things, playing golf and throwing wild yacht parties, they are all RICH people. Your self deception seems to know no bounds.

 

You clearly feel guilty about the poor people in the world yet you have spent money on a computer instead of helping them, the world simply cannot accommodate all the humans unless the majority remain poor and starving. Everyone is soul-less, we are just a collection of different molecules destined to die and decompose, all we can do is enjoy life whilst we have it.

[ultimatesens]

In this fantasy world that you want to create how would you overcome human nature,

 

Firstly I'm not creating a fantasy world in my proposal. Just proposing we back our currency with electricity.

 

Secondly, what is human nature? To fascists and rich people human nature is greedy, cruel and selfish. To people like me human nature has a lot more love compassion and empathy. Don't project your own personal self serving ideals about what you would like human nature to be on to the rest of us. If I did have to change human nature I would do it by locking up all the rich people because they are the only ones that believe humans are generally selfish. Once again in your mind you project your own personality on to others. You are greedy and selfish and so you assume everybody else is too.

 

 

 

suppose we took some of the poorest people of today and put them into the top 1% of the wealthiest people, do you think they would do anything for other people or would they just enjoy their new found wealth and not be to bothered about the people at the bottom.

 

So you admit that you are not bothered about the people at the bottom. Those 1 BILLION children can starve to death for all you care?

 

There have been a few examples demonstrating how useless some of the poor would be when you give them money, look at some of the big lottery winners and you will find that some just think about themselves, humans are all different and no matter what system we have there will be hard workers and idle parasites, rich and poor, good and bad.

 

There are also examples to the contrary. Like most fascists you assume "the poor" are incapable of running the world without you in charge and so you try to justify your own brutal oppression. Your like a bully who beats everyone up and then claims afterwards that they need you.

 

Poor = hard workers

Rich = idle parasites

 

Try looking in the mirror. Here are some facts....

 

Global cost of giving everyone in the third world access to water and basic sanitation 9bn USD

Amount spent on Ice cream in Europe 11 bn USD

 

Consumption of world GDP

 

Top 20% = 76.6%

Bottom 20% = 1.5%

 

source = http://www.globalissues.org/article/26/poverty-facts-and-stats

 

Who did you say the parasites were again? It doesn't look like those at the bottom to me. It's time we did away with the excesses of the rich because the world can no longer afford them.

[ultimatesens]

He described the system we have in the UK.

That’s probably got a lot to do with the fact that it’s the poorest people of the world doing all the breading and producing the next generations of poor people, more people means more poverty. But if you look at the poorest people in a democratic society then they become better off as the rich get richer.

 

No they don't. Try finding some evidence for that assertion.

 

How many children do the richest 1% have? I think you will find in many cases it's more than 3 and yet these are the people who are telling us we shouldn't be "breeding" as fast as we are while they fly to conferences around the world in private jets enjoying banquets of food.

 

More people doesn't mean more poverty. More people means more PRODUCTION. More Rich people means more poverty. Wealth is the cause of poverty.

[ultimatesens]

If you feel so strongly about the poor of the world why are you wasting your time and money using a computer, when you could be there helping them.

 

I am helping them FYI.

 

Right now I am trying to propagate throughout Sheffield ONE OF MANY simple perfectly workable practical ideas that would end global poverty entirely.

 

Instead of helping your dismissing the very idea that something needs to be done and deflecting the causes of the problem on to the victims themselves. Rich people have always tried to do that but their lies are becoming more and more transparent every day.

 

Your solution is to keep going as we are with more concentration of wealth at the top and myths about overpopulation. Your solution to poverty seems to be "kill all the poor people"

 

Actually poverty could be ended tomorrow if the people with all the money and the power chose to do so (and they all know it peeps). Instead they want the world for themselves and to hell with the 99%. They're just hoping the middle class people in this country will be dumb enough to go along with it all.

 

YOUR CERTAINLY WRONG THERE MRSMITH!

[ultimatesens]

You clearly feel guilty about the poor people in the world yet you have spent money on a computer instead of helping them, the world simply cannot accommodate all the humans unless the majority remain poor and starving. Everyone is soul-less, we are just a collection of different molecules destined to die and decompose, all we can do is enjoy life whilst we have it.

 

That's what you think because you obviously never experienced having a soul and you are selfish. You don't feel guilty about starving children, your attitude is "not my problem, I'm just going to have a good time!"

 

As for the world not being able to accommodate all the poor people, go back and re-read my statistics on the cost of providing access to running water vs Ice cream sales.

 

Poor people are not poor due to some unfortunate economic scientific equation. They are poor because they are being robbed blind by the rich. The rich are keeping the third world poor deliberately because it serves there own greedy interests. It's far better business to employ slaves in Africa with no unions no health and safety standards and no environmental protection and "Added bonus," it drives down wages here in the UK too so you can make even more money.

 

Your thought process is simple "every penny I have to pay in tax, H&S, sick pay, holidays, wages etc is one less penny for ME. I want it ALL, as much as I can get my greedy hands on. Sod everybody else. I don't care if they are children and they all die."

 

Your showing the quality of your character here for all to see. I understand your logic perfectly well and you can't fool us anymore.

[ultimatesens]

Do you have anything to say at all about the link I posted? Did you even read it?

 

You seem simply determined to sidetrack the idea I proposed and talk about how justified you are keeping all your money. Even though the proposal wouldn't adversely effect you but simply take power the power to print money off of banks.

 

It's almost like......you don't want anybody to even think about the possible alternatives. I wonder why?

[MrSmith]

Do you have anything to say at all about the link I posted? Did you even read it?

 

You seem simply determined to sidetrack the idea I proposed and talk about how justified you are keeping all your money. Even though the proposal wouldn't adversely effect you but simply take power the power to print money off of banks.

 

It's almost like......you don't want anybody to even think about the possible alternatives. I wonder why?

 

Firstly I’m not rich; my income is well below the national average through choice, I’m not motivated by greed and work enough hours to pay for the things I need, but I am a realist.

You still don’t appear to understand that we are all different which is in our nature, just because you feel strongly about something doesn’t mean someone else will. This is the reason your perfect world can’t exist unless you are prepared to kill to create it, which would kind of defeat the object.

There are 7 billion people on this planet and I have enough to worry about without being concerned or worried about 99.999%ish of them.

Latest scientific evidence suggests that if every human only consumed the grain they needed and lived like a poor Indian the planet could sustain 16 billion people, that’s assuming all available land is used for the production of grain using our current methods of farming. The problem would be that if everyone is as poor as the next man who would grow the grain and who would make the machinery to farm it and who would own the infrastructure to process and deliver it. We can safely say that if the planet had 16 billion people there would be billions constantly starving so this number is unachievable.

The planet can sustain 2.5 billion people if everyone lived the lifestyle and consumed the same as the average European, this means there are already 4.5 billion people to many and millions would have to lower their living standards to achieve it.

The planet can sustain 1.5 billion people if everyone lived the lifestyle and consumed the same as the average American, this means there are already 5.5 billion people to many and millions would have to lower their living standards to achieve it.

If everyone on the planet started to consume the amount of the poorest UK citizen then the planet still couldn’t feed everyone.

As it is in our nature to be different millions won’t lower their standard of living and millions will want to increase their standard of living., Conclusion there are too many people, and when a species overpopulates an area it always ends up with members of that species either dying of starvation, lack of water or killing they each other over the resources that are available.

[chem1st]

Well done for describing the system we have, as the rich get richer so do the poor, yes the gap gets wider but the poor do become better off.

 

You are mistaken.