the_bloke Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I'd have thought it was pretty obvious what the benefits are in teaching kids to learn how to write code in schools; it provides an opportunity for those children who are interested and have some natural logic ability to learn a new skill. I don't think anyone is suggesting that all children will suddenly turn into codemonkeys overnight, any more than a new type of rolling pin will make them all expert pastry chefs in Home Ec. class. I went to school in the '80s, in the golden age of the BBC Micro, and we were all taught simple programming (anyone else remember programming Turtle Graphics in Logo?). However it seems since then there was a phase shift into thinking that teaching computers in schools meant learning how to write a letter in Word or animate a block of text in Powerpoint - with children being taught nothing about how computers actually work. Imagine a whole generation of school leavers with good programming skills and the desire to actually make things with the knowledge they have, things that earn money and keep them in work, keep the taxes going into the country's coffers and a pool of resources that might persuade new businesses to be based in the UK rather than abroad - this is what the politicians are thinking about. If anyone thinks something like this is a bad idea, and thinks all kids should be taught how to make a letter in Word instead - when was the last time you did that? - then I'm interested to know why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryRiley Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I'd have thought it was pretty obvious what the benefits are in teaching kids to learn how to write code in schools; it provides an opportunity for those children who are interested and have some natural logic ability to learn a new skill. I don't think anyone is suggesting that all children will suddenly turn into codemonkeys overnight, any more than a new type of rolling pin will make them all expert pastry chefs in Home Ec. class. I went to school in the '80s, in the golden age of the BBC Micro, and we were all taught simple programming (anyone else remember programming Turtle Graphics in Logo?). However it seems since then there was a phase shift into thinking that teaching computers in schools meant learning how to write a letter in Word or animate a block of text in Powerpoint - with children being taught nothing about how computers actually work. Imagine a whole generation of school leavers with good programming skills and the desire to actually make things with the knowledge they have, things that earn money and keep them in work, keep the taxes going into the country's coffers and a pool of resources that might persuade new businesses to be based in the UK rather than abroad - this is what the politicians are thinking about. If anyone thinks something like this is a bad idea, and thinks all kids should be taught how to make a letter in Word instead - when was the last time you did that? - then I'm interested to know why. From your last sentence you seem to be implying that kids need programming skills more than they need to be able to use basic Office applications to write letters. I couldn't agree less. I am very passionate about programming but let's not get carried away with the idea that programming is going to be at the forefront of career opportunity in the near future because it isn't. Remember that all we have to play with for a child who doesn't choose ICT as a option is one hour a week. All these hours teaching the fundamentals of computer programming are going to have to come from somewhere and are more than likely to be forgotten, or at least no required for most kids outside of school life. Why not just focus on programming for an option subject? I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here because I love the idea, I jus don't think we need to ge carried away so easily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I'd have thought it was pretty obvious what the benefits are in teaching kids to learn how to write code in schools; it provides an opportunity for those children who are interested and have some natural logic ability to learn a new skill. I don't think anyone is suggesting that all children will suddenly turn into codemonkeys overnight, any more than a new type of rolling pin will make them all expert pastry chefs in Home Ec. class. I went to school in the '80s, in the golden age of the BBC Micro, and we were all taught simple programming (anyone else remember programming Turtle Graphics in Logo?). However it seems since then there was a phase shift into thinking that teaching computers in schools meant learning how to write a letter in Word or animate a block of text in Powerpoint - with children being taught nothing about how computers actually work. Imagine a whole generation of school leavers with good programming skills and the desire to actually make things with the knowledge they have, things that earn money and keep them in work, keep the taxes going into the country's coffers and a pool of resources that might persuade new businesses to be based in the UK rather than abroad - this is what the politicians are thinking about. If anyone thinks something like this is a bad idea, and thinks all kids should be taught how to make a letter in Word instead - when was the last time you did that? - then I'm interested to know why. This post is spot on tbh. When I was at secondary we were offered an elective GCSE course called Electronics. Applications for the course exceeded the number of places and I managed to land a place. We were taught about basic electrics, PCBs & simple programming systems. We even had a 'toy' manufacturing plant (Robotic arm, conveyor belts etc) which we had to programme for specific tasks. We also had a final project in which we specified something we'd build from scratch. It didn't even really need to work either, just so long as your final report showed why you suspected it didn't. To me the course was a success, no-one got less than a C overall (Exam+Final Project) however for some inexplicable reason (The school had the teaching staff, the course was within budget & space was available) the course was dropped by the LEA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altus Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Remember that all we have to play with for a child who doesn't choose ICT as a option is one hour a week. All these hours teaching the fundamentals of computer programming are going to have to come from somewhere and are more than likely to be forgotten, or at least no required for most kids outside of school life. Why not just focus on programming for an option subject? Without an introduction to the subject before hand, how will kids know [1] if they want to chose it as an option? Kids get an introduction to maths, english, science, history, geography, art, wookwork, etc. before they chose their options, why not computing? [1] There will always be a few who found an interest in it outside school as now but the idea is to encourage more people to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anywebsite Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 From your last sentence you seem to be implying that kids need programming skills more than they need to be able to use basic Office applications to write letters. I couldn't agree less. I am very passionate about programming but let's not get carried away with the idea that programming is going to be at the forefront of career opportunity in the near future because it isn't. Remember that all we have to play with for a child who doesn't choose ICT as a option is one hour a week. All these hours teaching the fundamentals of computer programming are going to have to come from somewhere and are more than likely to be forgotten, or at least no required for most kids outside of school life. Why not just focus on programming for an option subject? I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here because I love the idea, I jus don't think we need to ge carried away so easily They should be taught how to write letters in English lessons, that's an entirely different subject. How would the kids know to take it as an option if they've never done any computing before? If we wait until they get options, at 14, it's already too late, it'll just be like when I was at school & the kids were fixing the old broken computers & showing the (woodwork) teacher how to use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Microsoft, Apple & other companies like that make programming languages that aren't free & open source, but I can't see the point of them either. Fedora is produced for software developers, it is open source & it provides a very capable development environment, called Eclipse, along with every other possible programming tool you could need (except non-open source stuff). What languages do Microsoft or Apple produce that you have to pay to develop in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 It needs to be a language which gives an immediate payback (so doesn't take an age to compile), is user friendly (no cryptic error messages) and is accessible (no bewildering syntax "sir, why do I have to put a ; at the end of each line?" - "because you do"). This is just ignorance, you don't put ; at the end of every line in Java, you put it at the end of every statement (most statements actually), whitespace is irrelevant, the ; terminates a statement, not the carriage return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 A hour a week is not enough to teach programming to teenagers. I'm not only talking about the time constraints but also the fact that each child is not going to be listening intently while their teacher talks about the need for headers. What kind of GCSE can be taught in 1 hr/week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 A hour a week is not enough to teach programming to teenagers. I'm not only talking about the time constraints but also the fact that each child is not going to be listening intently while their teacher talks about the need for headers. I missed this post. You're right an hour a week isn't enough but that's the beauty of RasPi. It's cheap and portable enough for students to take home. RasPi has composite video & HDMI out and everyone has a TV with one or both these at home. USB keyboards and mice can be picked up for around £4 each from places like Asda. So the student can be set homework using RasPi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karl101 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Don't forget that the Pi is designed to have home built hardware connected to it. Just like the original BBC Micro. For example, here is the Gertboard: http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/raspberry-pis-gertboard-expansion-board-already-works-video-2012019/ K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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