Why do Muslims/Hindus/Sikhs celebrate christmas

[Harleyman]

Well this is the reason I like the US, have chosen to visit many times and have studied the history. I am pleased that some people have the sense to defend it, and complain against government support for a particular religion. Hurrah for them.

 

I know many religious folk that actively support the Constitution and separation of state and church just as much as atheists, and complain at public religious signs. They recognise it protects them too.

 

The reason you've watched it on the news is that it's newsworthy, that amongst the 1000's of illegal public sited religious signs, a handful receive complaints from people willing to defend the Constitution. Demands to take the religious advertising down is often met with a "no", or a "put your sign up as well" at best.

 

In response to the latter, the non-religious signs I have seen have not been anti-religious at all, but if you care to link to the one that so upsets you so much then I might be able to comment further.

 

 

 

As I said earlier, and RootsBooster confirmed, I've never met a single atheist who hates Christmas like you make out, not one. There would have to be a reason for that, and even the Grinch had a reason, but atheists do not, but some religious folk do, or feel that others should do.

 

Incidentally, why do you keep capitalising the "a" in atheist? Very strange.

 

 

The City of Santa Monica, California which is not known for it's conservative local government and at one time dubbed The People's Republic of Santa Monica allowed religious decorations along the parkway on PCH for around 60 years.

This year the local Atheist movement complained that they had been denied space to put up their signs. The City Council decided to hold a lottery for the 16 spaces available for signage and the Atheists won 12 of the spaces leaving four for Christian and Jewish symbols.

 

I dont think it achieved anything other than to prove the right to free speech.

The Athesit messages certainly didnt change the way of thinking of Christians and vice versa.

 

The majority of people didnt seem to give two hoots and were too busy packing out the local malls to do their Christmas shopping

 

Why do I capitalize Atheist? Why not. It's the same as Republican, Christian, Communist, Socialist.

Like those the word Atheist denotes a particualr belief which is a belief that God doesn't exist so it should be capitalized

[flamingjimmy]

Why do I capitalize Atheist? Why not. It's the same as Republican, Christian, Communist, Socialist.

Communist and socialist do not need to be capitalised (except when at the start of the sentence, of course!), neither does republican (unless you're talking about the US political party).

 

Like those the word Atheist denotes a particualr belief which is a belief that God doesn't exist so it shpuld be capitalized

That's not what it means to every single atheist I've ever met, or heard of. It is a lack of belief.

 

Atheism, theism, socialism, polytheism, republicanism, captalism, none of these words need to be capitalised.

 

Apparently Christian, Muslim, Jew, and Christianity, Judaism, and Islam do.

 

The difference is that the latter are names, they are the names of specific religions, and the names of the people who belong to them. Names need to be capitalised.

 

The former are not names, they are just descriptors.

 

Just a matter of simple logic.

Clearly not simple enough for you.

 

Also, as an aside, I too have never ever met or even heard of an atheist who hates Christmas, and I know loads of 'em.

[medusa]

What I do know of the Atheists thru watching the news on our local TV channels is that they like to place anti-religious signs anywhere in public places where mangers and minorahs are customarily displayed at this time of year.

Nothing wrong with that. I'm all for people enjoying the right to freedom of speech and expression guaranteed under the First Amendment.

 

Nevertheless if they use the Christmas season to eat, drink and be merry anyway then more power to them.

 

It's the kind of Atheists who because of their strongly held beliefs against Christmas and who deny themselves any enjoyment from it whatsoever who are the target of my ridicule. I'm sure there must be quite a lot of them too.

 

And there are a lot more of the 'I have my own beliefs but I'm not going to foist my beliefs on you' type of atheists, who never appear on your local news because they never do anything controversial enough to get a film crew involved.

 

I'm atheist (more specifically, I'm a Secular Humanist) but can you quote me the last time that you saw me attacking anybody else at all for their views, whether religious or political?

 

It's not my place to try to change your mind on whether you believe in any deity (which ever deity/deities that may be). You live your life and I'll live mine and as long as you don't spend your life attacking me for my beliefs then the chances of me ever doing the same to you is zero.

 

You can express your beliefs as much as you want (as long as your beliefs aren't about it being OK to harm other people or animals)- I don't mind.

 

You can celebrate whatever festivals you want to celebrate and I don't mind that either.

 

I see Christmas as a time to share time, love and good food with friends and to see the happiness and magic on the faces of their children when they find that Santa (who I believe to be as mythical as deities BTW) has brought them some presents. Amongst the friends I share my time with over Christmas there are committed Christians, agnostics and atheists, a few Pagans who celebrate Yule rather than Christmas (happily coinciding) and a couple of people of other religions who just like to join in with gift giving and sharing time and meals.

[taxman]

 

It's the kind of Atheists who because of their strongly held beliefs against Christmas and who deny themselves any enjoyment from it whatsoever who are the target of my ridicule. I'm sure there must be quite a lot of them too.

 

 

I've never met, nor heard of, any "atheist" who acts like that.

 

Where are they? Give us examples.

[Harleyman]

And there are a lot more of the 'I have my own beliefs but I'm not going to foist my beliefs on you' type of atheists, who never appear on your local news because they never do anything controversial enough to get a film crew involved.

 

I'm atheist (more specifically, I'm a Secular Humanist) but can you quote me the last time that you saw me attacking anybody else at all for their views, whether religious or political?

 

It's not my place to try to change your mind on whether you believe in any deity (which ever deity/deities that may be). You live your life and I'll live mine and as long as you don't spend your life attacking me for my beliefs then the chances of me ever doing the same to you is zero.

 

You can express your beliefs as much as you want (as long as your beliefs aren't about it being OK to harm other people or animals)- I don't mind.

 

You can celebrate whatever festivals you want to celebrate and I don't mind that either.

 

I see Christmas as a time to share time, love and good food with friends and to see the happiness and magic on the faces of their children when they find that Santa (who I believe to be as mythical as deities BTW) has brought them some presents. Amongst the friends I share my time with over Christmas there are committed Christians, agnostics and atheists, a few Pagans who celebrate Yule rather than Christmas (happily coinciding) and a couple of people of other religions who just like to join in with gift giving and sharing time and meals.

 

My sentiments exactly. The Jovies in our area generally make a point of doing their rounds just before Christmas. They sometimes bring their kids along with them. I feel sorry for the little beggars. They see other kids talking about Santa and reindeer and gifts and they must wonder why they cant be part of it. A child's mind cant comprehend the argument that they wont be doing any of this because of religious beliefs. At that age they're too young to be brainwashed. I dare say by the time they're eleven or twelve they will have been successfully brainwashed into believing whatever ridiculous reason their elders have denied them this bit of innocent fun in their early childhood.

[quisquose]

On googling, the Santa Monica (a place I know well) story really is quite funny.

 

For "nearly 60 years of tradition" read "since the time that we got our magic man stamped on our money, we've also ignored the Constitution with respect to using public land, that belongs to people of all faiths and none, to proselytise our religion".

 

Well, I'm glad they've been called out on that one. If local government allows groups to put up holiday displays on public property they can’t legally favour one group over another, so to be fair about doling out spaces they now have a lottery.

 

By the luck of the gods atheists won 18 of the spots (though they’re only using three of them), Christians won 2, and Jews won 1.

 

Guess what ... some Christians are complaining. If the Christians had won 20, and the atheists 1, would anybody notice? Would they still be complaining about the 1? If atheists are in the picture at all they're going to complain.

 

They either don't understand lotteries, or perhaps they are worried that their God has favoured the atheists or doesn't exist.

 

But the fact that some atheists winning more plots in a lottery can get reported as "atheists push Christians out of Christmas" or "atheists declare war on Christmas", and repeated as such on a forum dedicated to Sheffield, is simply hilarious nonsense.

 

Christians are 76% of the general population in the US and yet make up 90% of Congress. It's virtually impossible to get elected to public office if you are openly atheist. Obama has increased funding for faith-based initiatives, which are almost exclusively Christian. Christians have the power to get abstinence-only education funded over comprehensive sex education, the power to take away marriage equality, and 87 years after Scopes there are still legal battles to keep creationism out of the science classroom. Oh, but we must never forget that Christians are an oppressed minority, because sometimes they don't get as many spaces as non-Christians to set up holiday displays on public property.

[Harleyman]

I've never met, nor heard of, any "atheist" who acts like that.

 

Where are they? Give us examples.

 

There are some in Santa Monica apparently who were very happy to air their views on the media about how they felt about Christmas.

[quisquose]

There are some in Santa Monica apparently who were very happy to air their views on the media about how they felt about Christmas.

 

And what did they say about Christmas, and can you give us examples.

[Rupert_Baehr]

...It's the kind of Atheists who because of their strongly held beliefs against Christmas and who deny themselves any enjoyment from it whatsoever who are the target of my ridicule. I'm sure there must be quite a lot of them too.

 

I've never met, nor heard of, any "atheist" who acts like that.

 

Where are they? Give us examples.

 

There's no shortage of those in the US; unfortunately.

 

"You can't put up a Christmas tree (not a Christian symbol!) or any decorations on premises owned by the Federal Government because that infringes upon the principle of separation of church and state."

 

Federal employees have also been prohibited from putting Christmas cards (even the ones which say 'Happy Holidays' 'Season's greetings' or 'Best wishes from Snoopy') on their desks.

 

The attitude of some appears to be: "I'm a miserable sod and I'll do my best to make sure you don't enjoy yourselves."

[quisquose]

There's no shortage of those in the US; unfortunately.

 

"You can't put up a Christmas tree (not a Christian symbol!) or any decorations on premises owned by the Federal Government because that infringes upon the principle of separation of church and state."

 

Federal employees have also been prohibited from putting Christmas cards (even the ones which say 'Happy Holidays' 'Season's greetings' or 'Best wishes from Snoopy') on their desks.

 

The attitude of some appears to be: "I'm a miserable sod and I'll do my best to make sure you don't enjoy yourselves."

 

Well that's clearly nonsense, and way beyond church/state separation and unnecessary.

 

I did once work in an office where no personal possessions, photos, etc, were permissible at our desks or in the office. Yes, it was a miserable place and left quite quickly, so never found out about Christmas cards but would guess they weren't allowed either.

 

So there clearly are some miserable sods around, but my main gripe is with Harleyman's statement ...

 

Better than the devout atheists who cut off their noses to spite their faces and act like a bunch of Grinches, Jovies. Puritans (take your pick) when Dec 25th rolls around.

 

... which certainly attempts to tar us as the miserable sods in an unfounded manner.