willman Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 May not be part of a written contract. Might be in some contracts though. Regardless, the employer has a psychological contract with employees before we even get into morals, thats why the smart places will pay up, it makes Business sense to pay your staff properly or the best ones will leave and you will also be understaffed on the night as people take a sickie. And if you are understaffed or miserable staff = unhappy customers. Unhappy customers = less profits. You are completely incorrect - the employer has no legal, moral or psychological(seriously) responsibility to pay people above their pay grade. No one is saying it doesn't make business sense,we're simply stating the obvious, minimum wage is the only requirement for New Years Eve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC1 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 You are completely incorrect - the employer has no legal, moral or psychological(seriously) responsibility to pay people above their pay grade. No one is saying it doesn't make business sense,we're simply stating the obvious, minimum wage is the only requirement for New Years Eve. It's obvious the general consensus seems to be its wrong either from a moral, legal or psychological standpoint for staff to get paid normal rates and not even get a taxi home on new years eve. If the employer or industry usually pays a certain amount at certain times of the year and you don't pay the minimum expected as an employer, then thats a moral obligation. If you want your employees to be happy and not bitch on forums or not turn up for work then you have a responsiblity to abide by a psychological contract. If its in a written contract signed by both parties then its a legal responsiblity. Saying all this its still free market principles, if you don't like what your employer does just offer your services elsewhere, it can't be that hard to get a bar job. They will soon learn to stop being a scrooge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnvqsos Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 You are completely incorrect - the employer has no legal, moral or psychological(seriously) responsibility to pay people above their pay grade. No one is saying it doesn't make business sense,we're simply stating the obvious, minimum wage is the only requirement for New Years Eve. This is a very intemperate comment;many employers set themselves a moral code for fair payment.Your name will man suggests yoiu have a legal background.Lawyers often separate the legal and moral issues,but an employer may be swayed by ethics,even though our inadequate laws place no responsibility on them to behave fairly.It is a great shame more lawyers are not on a miminum wage;they would be less prepared to defend a free market were this the case.They are frequently found in the employers' pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnvqsos Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 It's obvious the general consensus seems to be its wrong either from a moral, legal or psychological standpoint for staff to get paid normal rates and not even get a taxi home on new years eve. If the employer or industry usually pays a certain amount at certain times of the year and you don't pay the minimum expected as an employer, then thats a moral obligation. If you want your employees to be happy and not bitch on forums or not turn up for work then you have a responsiblity to abide by a psychological contract. If its in a written contract signed by both parties then its a legal responsiblity. Saying all this its still free market principles, if you don't like what your employer does just offer your services elsewhere, it can't be that hard to get a bar job. They will soon learn to stop being a scrooge! Well done for holding your ground in spite of the damaging comments made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willman Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 This is a very intemperate comment;many employers set themselves a moral code for fair payment.Your name will man suggests yoiu have a legal background.Lawyers often separate the legal and moral issues,but an employer may be swayed by ethics,even though our inadequate laws place no responsibility on them to behave fairly.It is a great shame more lawyers are not on a miminum wage;they would be less prepared to defend a free market were this the case.They are frequently found in the employers' pockets. You'll find most trainee and new solicitors are already on a capped earnings set down by the Law Society. How would you like the person preparing your deposition or house sale to be earning less than minimum wage (IF they were paid hourly),which they often are. You work for a wage if you don't like it don't work. BUT no one is obliged to increase salaries just because somebody wants to earn more money. I quit work in retail 20 years ago because i refused to work weekends and Bank Holidays. I bet the staff getting a little extra don't offer to work for free any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC1 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 This is a very intemperate comment;many employers set themselves a moral code for fair payment.Your name will man suggests yoiu have a legal background.Lawyers often separate the legal and moral issues,but an employer may be swayed by ethics,even though our inadequate laws place no responsibility on them to behave fairly.It is a great shame more lawyers are not on a miminum wage;they would be less prepared to defend a free market were this the case.They are frequently found in the employers' pockets. All true. The argument seems to be If a female employee gets assaulted because you didnt organise her a taxi late at night, don't worry because it wasn't in the contract! Or, you know every single bar on the street is paying people double rates on NYE but you only pay single. Don't worry its not in the contract! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hushai Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Hi everyone! I work part-time at a city centre bar. All staff are expected to work either NYE or Christmas eve, and we all assumed that we'd be receiving a bonus or time and a half for working these incredibly busy, late shifts. Turns out that we've got to do it for minimum wage. I understand that there's no legal requirement to pay us extra, but the taxi home on NYE (if I can even get one) will cost me the equivalent of at least 2 hours work and it's barely going to be even worth my while, especially when the clientèle are loud, drunk and sometimes abusive. I know a lot of people are without jobs at the moment, so it's not popular to complain, but suppose I just wanted a moan! Am I justified in moaning? I want to say something to my boss, but I don't know if I'll end up being sacked... Bar staff have always, as far as I am aware , worked unsociable hours for minimal pay. Surely that is the nature of the work.If you cannot accept the terms and conditions the answer is to find alternative employment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC1 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 You'll find most trainee and new solicitors are already on a capped earnings set down by the Law Society. How would you like the person preparing your deposition or house sale to be earning less than minimum wage (IF they were paid hourly),which they often are. You work for a wage if you don't like it don't work. BUT no one is obliged to increase salaries just because somebody wants to earn more money. I quit work in retail 20 years ago because i refused to work weekends and Bank Holidays. I bet the staff getting a little extra don't offer to work for free any time soon. But the staff you give a little extra to are more likely to help out when you are in the doo-doo though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC1 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 "we all assumed that we'd be receiving a bonus or time and a half for working these incredibly busy, late shifts." Definition of a psychological contract which the employer has now broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willman Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 All true. The argument seems to be If a female employee gets assaulted because you didnt organise her a taxi late at night, don't worry because it wasn't in the contract! Or, you know every single bar on the street is paying people double rates on NYE but you only pay single. Don't worry its not in the contract! . I think your getting confused with what people are entitled to and what people are asking for just because it's NYE. If they don't like the wages - quit. Taxi's etc should be part of their entitlement all year round, not just because they cost the worker more on NYE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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