*_ash_* Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I've seen some ridiculous arguments on here many times, but yours beats most of them. It's obvious the general consensus seems to be its wrong either from a moral, legal or psychological standpoint for staff to get paid normal rates and not even get a taxi home on new years eve. You're mixing up different things here for a start (perhaps in an attempt to make it hard for people to argue with you). If they had signed a contract to say that they would be paid extra, then that's one thing (legal). Since the OP said that they 'assumed', then they have either not got a contract, or they clearly assumed wrongly (and waited until 2 days before to question it). 'psychological standpoint' ?! What have morals got to do with the OP question? - I can only assume you mean the employer should pay more because the staff also want to go out and party rather than work, because NYE is a night that is considered to be a celebration night. Why should they be paid more? - because it's busy? (as the OP argued). Since the minimum wage can't be [legally] breached, then how can we compensate the employer when the work is not busy? If they [staff] consider their wage based on busyness, then they should be paid less for quiet nights. This was the stance of the OP (and you it seems), not me. If a bar-staff didn't expect it to be busy on NYE, then they are quite simply naïve. If a bar-staff expected to have NYE off work because they wanted it off, or because they don't want to work it because it will be busy, then that is equally naïve. If the employer or industry usually pays a certain amount at certain times of the year and you don't pay the minimum expected as an employer, then thats a moral obligation. Rubbish. You're playing on words... badly, if you look at how you worded what I have underlined. If you want your employees to be happy and not bitch on forums or not turn up for work then you have a responsiblity to abide by a psychological contract. More rubbish. If its in a written contract signed by both parties then its a legal responsiblity. One of the few things that make sense. Not much else does though. Saying all this its still free market principles, if you don't like what your employer does just offer your services elsewhere, it can't be that hard to get a bar job. They will soon learn to stop being a scrooge! And you just an added insult to bar-staff too The argument seems to be If a female employee gets assaulted because you didnt organise her a taxi late at night, don't worry because it wasn't in the contract! Either this is a bizarre comment, that defies any kind of logic, or some posts were deleted before you wrote it, and we can't see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leah-Lacie Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 If its a City Centre bar, then I presume the OP works late hours normally, until at least midnight, maybe 1 or even 2am. So the OP would normally finish work well after public transport finished anyway, that would be a standard thing. If they don't get their taxi home paid for on any other shift, then NYE shouldn't really be any different, taxis are only £2 extra (apparently, but don't use a black cab, make sure you call and prebook) However, for working NYE it would be a nice goodwill gesture by the employer to pay extra, particularly as they are mostly charging daft amounts for entry tickets, and will be making several times more than they do on a normal night. I know a lot of doormen who apparently get triple time for NYE (and double for Christmas eve). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 The employer has the whip-hand and the worker needs the money.It is an unequal relationship.Exponents of the free market cannot grasp this as they have never been that desperate for a crust-they are usually the public-school type who sleep out for one night to empathise with the homeless.Very daring. The employer needs the staff to run the business, the employed is free to find work elsewhere. It's not like they are forced to keep working somewhere where they aren't valued or the conditions are bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethwebb Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 The employer needs the staff to run the business, the employed is free to find work elsewhere. It's not like they are forced to keep working somewhere where they aren't valued or the conditions are bad. Rock and a hard place... we aren't valued, but we can't just walk out because we all need the money. There just isn't an infinite number of jobs to wander into. I've just decided to roll with it.. going to get merry behind the bar and treat it like a cheap night out. NYE is mega overrated anyway. Have a good one, chaps x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Rock and a hard place... we aren't valued, but we can't just walk out because we all need the money. There just isn't an infinite number of jobs to wander into. I've just decided to roll with it.. going to get merry behind the bar and treat it like a cheap night out. NYE is mega overrated anyway. Have a good one, chaps x You will be enjoying the same music, atmosphere and people that all those customers are enjoying, the only difference is they will spend a lot of money and wake up with an hangover and you will make money and feel better than they feel in the morning. Have a good night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethwebb Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 You will be enjoying the same music, atmosphere and people that all those customers are enjoying, the only difference is they will spend a lot of money and wake up with an hangover and you will make money and feel better than they feel in the morning. Have a good night. With any luck I'll wake up with a hangover too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJC1 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I've seen some ridiculous arguments on here many times, but yours beats most of them. You're mixing up different things here for a start (perhaps in an attempt to make it hard for people to argue with you). If they had signed a contract to say that they would be paid extra, then that's one thing (legal). Since the OP said that they 'assumed', then they have either not got a contract, or they clearly assumed wrongly (and waited until 2 days before to question it). 'psychological standpoint' ?! What have morals got to do with the OP question? - I can only assume you mean the employer should pay more because the staff also want to go out and party rather than work, because NYE is a night that is considered to be a celebration night. Why should they be paid more? - because it's busy? (as the OP argued). Since the minimum wage can't be [legally] breached, then how can we compensate the employer when the work is not busy? If they [staff] consider their wage based on busyness, then they should be paid less for quiet nights. This was the stance of the OP (and you it seems), not me. If a bar-staff didn't expect it to be busy on NYE, then they are quite simply naïve. If a bar-staff expected to have NYE off work because they wanted it off, or because they don't want to work it because it will be busy, then that is equally naïve. Rubbish. You're playing on words... badly, if you look at how you worded what I have underlined. More rubbish. One of the few things that make sense. Not much else does though. And you just an added insult to bar-staff too Either this is a bizarre comment, that defies any kind of logic, or some posts were deleted before you wrote it, and we can't see them. Ha ha. If you just de-constuct my entire thread history (sad), taking bits out at random without context what can I say? From what I can make out you think employers should only stick to a legal agreement. Well, we've had this debate already so I'll leave it there. Happy new year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*_ash_* Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Ha ha. If you just de-constuct my entire thread history (sad), taking bits out at random without context what can I say? Again you just pick things out of thin air, and make assumptions. All the crap that I quoted was from just 2 posts. From what I can make out you think employers should only stick to a legal agreement. Well, we've had this debate already so I'll leave it there. Happy new year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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