Green Web Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I don't get it? When they do it in places like Libya we all say good on'em and praise them for fighting what they beleive is fair, when any of us do it we're potrayed as been silly? You may love our government, bankers, the privatised NHS and the necessary cuts etc, but what is so wrong with standing up for what you believe in? So what if some of them are a bit middle class and crusty, need a wash, off with the fairies, spout fashionable stuff from the Guardian, what harm are they doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECCOnoob Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 ...because they are generally getting in the way, being disruptive and uncooperative when asked peacefully to vacate, break tresspass laws, refuse to listen to reasonable arguments or evidence, have no real agenda or REALISTC goals, make the place look untidy and are usually total hypercrites by using and facilitating the very "system" they claim to be protesting against. Democracy is how you change things. We are already lucky enough to have that. Libya doesnt. We get numerous chances to vote, consult, give opinion and attend many many public meetings and forums. We all had a chance to have a say in 2010. We went out. We voted. SOME people didn't like the result. Well tough. That's democracy - deal with it until the next time. What about the people who actually believe cuts are necessary, support the government, have the sense to give the govenment time to impliment changes, have the brains to know that change will not happen overnight, have the brains to know that some people will get hurt - but its a necessary action to stop the uk becoming another Greece, Ireland or Italy. What about if all those did a counter occupy process??? The country would well and truly grind to a hault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nubile Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I think that pretty much sums it up. Might as well close this now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert_Baehr Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Could it be a matter of 'image'? The protestors in Libya and in Egypt were seen as being really poor and oppressed They upset their own government (and may well have upset a number of other citizens locally) but they didn't go out of the way to antagonise their supporters. Could it be that some of our protestors (and we're talking about 'Occupy', aren't we) are viewed as being 'in it for what I, personally, can get out of it' and don't give a damn what their potential supporters think? The image you portray is important. The Church of England (along with the Salvation Army) are renowned for 'good work' and supporting the poor and oppressed. So Occupy targetted the Church of England! Smart move, that. When the Dean asked them to leave the Cathedral, they blew him off. I'm aware that the Citadel is no longer owned by a church organisation, but I've no doubt many people were not ... Another PR own goal! There are other empty buildings in Sheffield. Aren't there one or two disused breweries? Occupy could've grabbed one of those ...But then, perhaps, they would have been accused of being unable to organise a P***-up in a brewery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I don't get it? When they do it in places like Libya we all say good on'em and praise them for fighting what they beleive is fair, when any of us do it we're potrayed as been silly? You may love our government, bankers, the privatised NHS and the necessary cuts etc, but what is so wrong with standing up for what you believe in? So what if some of them are a bit middle class and crusty, need a wash, off with the fairies, spout fashionable stuff from the Guardian, what harm are they doing? Because every 4-5 years we get to choose our government and in the other countries you are talking about they are fighting for the right to choose their government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElasticMan Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Because every 4-5 years we get to choose our government and in the other countries you are talking about they are fighting for the right to choose their government. General Elections are only part of living in a democracy - and in our case, not a very effective one. Every 5 years only around 2/3rds of eligible people vote, and a governments are formed based on a minority of the votes cast. In recent years governments have been formed with around 1/4 support from the electorate, with often only a few votes in key areas making any difference at all. Once they are elected, governments often abandon pledges or do the exact opposite of what they pledged (VAT, Student Fees etc). That's why people protest - they are engaging with the political system that would otherwise ignore them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 ...because they are generally getting in the way, being disruptive and uncooperative when asked peacefully to vacate, break tresspass laws, refuse to listen to reasonable arguments or evidence, have no real agenda or REALISTC goals, make the place look untidy and are usually total hypercrites by using and facilitating the very "system" they claim to be protesting against. Does any of that personally impact on you? Do you live near the Cathedral? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 General Elections are only part of living in a democracy - and in our case, not a very effective one. Every 5 years only around 2/3rds of eligible people vote, and a governments are formed based on a minority of the votes cast. In recent years governments have been formed with around 1/4 support from the electorate, with often only a few votes in key areas making any difference at all. Once they are elected, governments often abandon pledges or do the exact opposite of what they pledged (VAT, Student Fees etc). That's why people protest - they are engaging with the political system that would otherwise ignore them. That just shows that 2/3rds aren't bother either but do still have the right to vote if they feel strongly about something, this of cause is completely different for the people that have protested to get rid of their unelected dictatorial leaders. Just because a minority don't like what the elected government are doing doesn't give them the right to bring the country to a standstill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 and are usually total hypercrites by using and facilitating the very "system" they claim to be protesting against. Why do you claim they are hypocrites? Does using or benefitting from a system or service mean one mustn't criticise it? That's a ludicrous notion. Does that mean that no-one who uses trains is allowed to complain if they are late or if they crash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Peaceful protest is a right within our democracy. We should be grateful for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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