spooky3 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 ... This is a strange image of rural Africa, not one I recognise. It sounds more like a slum you might imagine around Buenos Ares filled with refugees driven from their homes. ... Not floods in all areas, but many, otherwise, sounds quite accurate to me from what i've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierra Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 If it is forced upon someone against there will, it's inhumane - it steals people's chances of having children. The drive to procreate is one of the most compelling drives that human beings have and to render people unable to to follow it to fruition is grossly immoral. You are making value judgements about the worth of other people that are arrogant, based on your own well fed, advantaged position and utterly without objectivism. How dare you assume that you have the right to commit such a darkly evil act of violence against others because they are poor? I find your idea utterly abhorrent and the mentality that underlies it utterly contemptible. I agree with you in theory, but it won't fly in practice. If you cannot feed the children you have, the obvious solution is to STOP having so many kids so there's more food to go around. What I find a bigger darkly evil act are these women being denied the opportunity to be in control of their own reproductive rights. How are their lives going to improve if they are forced by grinding poverty or culture or religion to become baby factories? I'm not saying forcibly sterilize everyone, but let the individual decide. Those who choose to have ten kids will be balanced out by those who choose to have one or two or none at all. The other solution is to let them carry on as they have been with the same tragic results. Isn't that the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing but expecting different results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I agree with you in theory, but it won't fly in practice. If you cannot feed the children you have, the obvious solution is to STOP having so many kids so there's more food to go around. Easy in theory, but people tend to follow their instincts, hearts and traditions, and in areas where infant mortality is high people will have multiple births to maximise their chances of ending up with surviving children. What I find a bigger darkly evil act are these women being denied the opportunity to be in control of their own reproductive rights. How are their lives going to improve if they are forced by grinding poverty or culture or religion to become baby factories? I'm not saying forcibly sterilize everyone, but let the individual decide. Those who choose to have ten kids will be balanced out by those who choose to have one or two or none at all. I absolutely agree that women should be empowered to control their own reproductivity. The other solution is to let them carry on as they have been with the same tragic results. Isn't that the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing but expecting different results? Yes, I think you are right that we need new ways of thinking, which is why I find the absurdly reductionist ideas touted on here so absurd - I'm damned sure there are better responses than 'stop giving aid' and 'sterilise the poor'... You are quite right in suggesting that the empowering women is important - alongside that there are political, agricultural, social and all kinds of other avenues that can be explored to try and adress the better management of resources, wealth - and ultimately, food and water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 We don’t need to sterilise anyone by force because as Halibut says it’s inhumane, we just need to let them die when they can’t feed themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky3 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Easy in theory, but people tend to follow their instincts, hearts and traditions, and in areas where infant mortality is high people will have multiple births to maximise their chances of ending up with surviving children. ... Hey that's like that on the spot fine thing which came in, the week after shoplifters on average started nicking stuff which cost twice as much. Our sink estates are full of young women who know that they get more money for each extra child they have, and a better property, etc, etc... I'm not into sterilisation or stopping giving benefits, but this over breeding is a root cause of a lot of the problems. It's ridiculous and naive to think otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 You're just not seeing it are you? If you know that three quarters of your children will die before the age of five, you make sure you have a good number of children. Having less means you're likely to end up with one, or two, or none and not enough hands to earn money or grow food and a limited chance (given that we're talking about low life expectancy) of making it to adulthood and being able to provide for you and their own offspring. Your mentality belongs to the 19th century. Has it occured to you what continuous childbearing does to a woman's body and in particular if she's living in poor circumastances or does that matter a damn to you.? Obviously your way of thinking is that a woman has no rights and is just a vessel for breeding. You're as cold as a fish (no pun intended) and you have the gall to accuse me of having a Nazi mentality. Maybe in the next life you'll be born in some nameless slum and know what's its like to be in the family way half a dozen times. I hope it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Easy in theory, but people tend to follow their instincts, hearts and traditions, and in areas where infant mortality is high people will have multiple births to maximise their chances of ending up with surviving children. I absolutely agree that women should be empowered to control their own reproductivity. Yes, I think you are right that we need new ways of thinking, which is why I find the absurdly reductionist ideas touted on here so absurd - I'm damned sure there are better responses than 'stop giving aid' and 'sterilise the poor'... You are quite right in suggesting that the empowering women is important - alongside that there are political, agricultural, social and all kinds of other avenues that can be explored to try and adress the better management of resources, wealth - and ultimately, food and water. If you're so damned sure then share some of these better responses with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
some guy Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 It's not our responsibility/problem to do so. The country is in enough debt as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 It's not our responsibility/problem to do so. The country is in enough debt as it is. Halibut and his cronies are drafting letters to their MPs demanding that their taxes be raised to support the world's poor and needy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Moon Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Can the UK afford to house and feed the world, and how much would you give up to achieve this. I believe there are too many humans on the planet and it is this fact that leaves people starving, we are after all just one of the many animals on this planet, and nature will always find a balance. No，we cannot. Malthus' essay --- "An Essay on the Principle of Population---has predicted this though the base of his theory was not sound. The problems are the nowadays politicians they are so keen on minding other people's business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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