flamingjimmy Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 No I don't. If you don't lack a belief, then you have a belief, that's what 'lack' means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy Jnr Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 If you don't lack a belief, then you have a belief, that's what 'lack' means. Ok then I believe the Toad exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy Jnr Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 .....but I have my suspicions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy Jnr Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 And that constitutes doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 No I don't. It's just not a consideration and until you brought them to my notice I was unaware of this particular species of Toad. I can no more guess at their existence than I can their non existence. If it's proven that they don't exist then so be it, belief will be of no consequence will it! So there was nothing in your mind to subject it existed therefore there was a lack of belief. Belief 1. An acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists. 2. Something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction. So if you don’t know it exists or what it is or have never heard of it you must lack belief that it exists. You cannot believe something exists when you don’t know what the something is. So there is a lack of belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy Jnr Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 So there was nothing in your mind to subject it existed therefore there was a lack of belief. Belief 1. An acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists. 2. Something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction. So if you don’t know it exists or what it is or have never heard of it you must lack belief that it exists. You cannot believe something exists when you don’t know what the something is. So there is a lack of belief. No! until I am made aware of something i neither believe or disbelieve as the very thing is not even on my radar is it. It's not a thought, not even the nucleus of a thought. I have to be aware of something to draw any conclusion or make any decision about it. The only way I can lack belief that something exists is to learn that others see it as real or believable and I think otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 No! until I am made aware of something i neither believe or disbelieve as the very thing is not even on my radar is it. It's not a thought, not even the nucleus of a thought. I have to be aware of something to draw any conclusion or make any decision about it. The only way I can lack belief that something exists is to learn that others see it as real or believable and I think otherwise. This is hard work, There you said it, you don't believe and if you don't then you lack belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy Jnr Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 This is hard work, There you said it, you don't believe and if you don't then you lack belief. I gave both options and If you want easy jump to the I'm bored section Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz1 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 No! until I am made aware of something i neither believe or disbelieve as the very thing is not even on my radar is it. It's not a thought, not even the nucleus of a thought. I have to be aware of something to draw any conclusion or make any decision about it. The only way I can lack belief that something exists is to learn that others see it as real or believable and I think otherwise. I'm with you on this Murphy jnr. I think the whole thread has been dragged over and the more some people play with words the more it will lose its direction. Some atheists have a habit of doing that- playing with words to suit their stance and to actively seek out flaws- a lot of 'but' and 'if' etc. I also uphold the fact that some dictionaries do give a more broader definition of 'atheism' and it is not JUST a lack of belief. They also add that it is a denial of God, or a doctrine that there is no god or gods. "Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods b) The doctrine that there is no God or gods." (American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, fourth addition, 2000.) "Disbelief in, or denial of, the existence of a god." (Oxford English Dictionary, Second Edition) Hence why some atheists clearly reject the existence of god. The atheist must make a choice to be an atheist. Can you really have a position of "lack"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I'm with you on this Murphy jnr. I think the whole thread has been dragged over and the more some people play with words the more it will lose its direction. Some atheists have a habit of doing that- playing with words to suit their stance and to actively seek out flaws- a lot of 'but' and 'if' etc. I also uphold the fact that some dictionaries do give a more broader definition of 'atheism' and it is not JUST a lack of belief. They also add that it is a denial of God, or a doctrine that there is no god or gods. "Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods b) The doctrine that there is no God or gods." (American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, fourth addition, 2000.) "Disbelief in, or denial of, the existence of a god." (Oxford English Dictionary, Second Edition) Hence why some atheists clearly reject the existence of god. The atheist must make a choice to be an atheist. Can you really have a position of "lack"? The topic is about being an atheist and if it would include someone that as no concept of a God so I would say we are on topic. I don't know what a God is and people that claim to know God won't tell me a God is so for now I have no belief that a God exists. So would be described as an atheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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