Longcol Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 My point is that protest has an unseen influence. Before the Iraq war the largest protest in human history happened right here in the U.K. It didn't stop us going to war but it did influence how we fought the war. It wasn't the largest protest in human history - over 3 million marched in Rome against the Iraq war. I was part of the march in London - it didn't make a blind bit of difference to how "the coalition" fought the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthenekred Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 It wasn't the largest protest in human history - over 3 million marched in Rome against the Iraq war. I was part of the march in London - it didn't make a blind bit of difference to how "the coalition" fought the war. Just wondering longcol if you felt your efforts were a complete waste of time or did you just stumble on the protest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runnybabbit Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 As we're plucking random figures out of the air why stop at ten million? Why not 4 billion people, that would cause the whole world to grind to a halt! (what good that would do I have no idea but you seem keen on things grinding to a halt for some reason). Personally I'm not convinved that a couple of people and a dog outside a cathedral in Sheffield are going to persaude anyone of anything, let alone rising up against democracy in their millions. No I agree. The occupy protest in Sheffield is much too small. It needs to be much bigger and supported much more broadly. People need to generate more awareness of the actual issues. I think that's what the OP was trying to do by asking if anyone had actually done any research yet. That's what really needs to happen before we start grinding things to a halt. It's no good being the 99% if we are all divided. People need information and facts first. Here is a document full of facts that was perhaps the most influential document in the creation of the occupy movement. I suggest everyone read it before they make judgements on the occupy people. It will help you understand why they are there and what they are fighting against. http://ampedstatus.org/full-report-the-economic-elite-vs-the-people-of-the-united-states-of-america/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcol Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Just wondering longcol if you felt your efforts were a complete waste of time or did you just stumble on the protest? I think the march did some good in raising awareness - perhaps without it journalists like Andrew Gilligan at the BBC might not have gone on to show how the dossier on Iraq's WMD's had been "sexed - up". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runnybabbit Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I'm gonna screw the corporations and the government while I use; - the internet (including the domain, hosting providers which are huge corporations) - a computer / mobile phone (made by corporations who pay their workers very little) - clothes made by small children who get paid very little OCCUPY THE WORLD! The internet was developed in universities and by the military. Paid for by the people. Computers and phones. Again couldn't have been designed without massive taxpayer subsidies and government research. The first computers were too inefficient to have been designed or used by corporations in a free market. Transistors were invented at AT&T when they had a monopoly. British telecom built our network infrastructure when it was a publicly owned utility. Once again it was paid for by the taxpayer. Clothes. i take great care to ensure that the clothing I wear is manufactured in countries with high labor standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esme Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Mod Note Posts removed for insults, please keep it civil and attack the argument and not the person making it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtains Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 The internet was developed in universities and by the military. Paid for by the people. Computers and phones. Again couldn't have been designed without massive taxpayer subsidies and government research. The first computers were too inefficient to have been designed or used by corporations in a free market. Transistors were invented at AT&T when they had a monopoly. British telecom built our network infrastructure when it was a publicly owned utility. Once again it was paid for by the taxpayer. Clothes. i take great care to ensure that the clothing I wear is manufactured in countries with high labor standards. Most of the things we have and use on a daily basis were made with public money, but again you fail to see the point and try to talk yourself out of it. The things you use, the things you own are all owned by the corporations and capitalist values that you are protesting against. If they didn't exist, you wouldn't have the chance to protest in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcol Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 No I agree. The occupy protest in Sheffield is much too small. It needs to be much bigger and supported much more broadly. People need to generate more awareness of the actual issues. I think that's what the OP was trying to do by asking if anyone had actually done any research yet. That's what really needs to happen before we start grinding things to a halt. It's no good being the 99% if we are all divided. People need information and facts first. Here is a document full of facts that was perhaps the most influential document in the creation of the occupy movement. I suggest everyone read it before they make judgements on the occupy people. It will help you understand why they are there and what they are fighting against. http://ampedstatus.org/full-report-the-economic-elite-vs-the-people-of-the-united-states-of-america/ Do you really think that you will influence many people in Sheffield by a long polemic about the USA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runnybabbit Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 No it didn't. Our armed forces have strict rules of engagement which were adhered to in the majority of cases. At no point did any officer order his men to start shelling an orphanage before changing his mind and ordering them not to having reflected that actually there was a big march in London so on balance probably better to shell the enemies mobile SAM battery instead. The U.S. was engaging in a genocidal "shock and awe" bombing tactic in the first few days. They abandoned this strategy due to public outrage. The allied forces could have set up free fire zones like in Vietnam but they didn't. Rules of engagement are regularly broken but still our military went to great lengths to minimize civilian casualties. We didn't just use bombs and missiles, we used laser guided smart missiles that cost considerably more to develop and build. I'm not saying it was good. But we did everything we could short of not being there in the first place. Also I'm proud to say British troops always conduct themselves in an exemplary fashion, adhering strictly to the rules of engagement as a matter of principle. If only our American brothers and sisters were the same. I'm certain British squaddies who interacted with U.S. troops tried to impart their values as much as possible. How much of that do you think would have been influenced by British attitudes to war back home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runnybabbit Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 It wasn't the largest protest in human history - over 3 million marched in Rome against the Iraq war. I was part of the march in London - it didn't make a blind bit of difference to how "the coalition" fought the war. You don't know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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