OCCUPY - How informed are you?

[Runnybabbit]

I think the march did some good in raising awareness - perhaps without it journalists like Andrew Gilligan at the BBC might not have gone on to show how the dossier on Iraq's WMD's had been "sexed - up".

 

Exactly Longcol.

[curtains]

The U.S. was engaging in a genocidal "shock and awe" bombing tactic in the first few days. They abandoned this strategy due to public outrage. The allied forces could have set up free fire zones like in Vietnam but they didn't. Rules of engagement are regularly broken but still our military went to great lengths to minimize civilian casualties. We didn't just use bombs and missiles, we used laser guided smart missiles that cost considerably more to develop and build.

 

I'm not saying it was good. But we did everything we could short of not being there in the first place.

 

Also I'm proud to say British troops always conduct themselves in an exemplary fashion, adhering strictly to the rules of engagement as a matter of principle. If only our American brothers and sisters were the same. I'm certain British squaddies who interacted with U.S. troops tried to impart their values as much as possible. How much of that do you think would have been influenced by British attitudes to war back home?

 

The bombing done by the Americans in the first few days was a quick reaction to damage any military targets fast, it wasn't a shock and awe tactic again the civilian population - just a quick way to take down anything that could take you out.

 

These so called laser guided smart missiles are used as a first choice, especially in civilian areas and a march in London had no bearing on the ordinance used. They also are just as cost effective as any other missile we use.

 

British soldiers have been found to do some horrific things as well as Americans.

[Longcol]

You don't know that.

 

And you certainly don't know that nuclear weapons would have been used in Iraq if the protests against the war hadn't taken place.

 

They hadn't been in 1991 for example which had seen fairly muted protests.

[ronthenekred]

 

The things you use, the things you own are all owned by the corporations and capitalist values that you are protesting against. If they didn't exist, you wouldn't have the chance to protest in the first place.

 

How grateful I should feel..thanks for that.

 

If I get whacked over the head and my wallet stolen I'll just thank my attacker he existed so I can complain how fortunate I am.

[Runnybabbit]

Most of the things we have and use on a daily basis were made with public money, but again you fail to see the point and try to talk yourself out of it.

 

The things you use, the things you own are all owned by the corporations and capitalist values that you are protesting against. If they didn't exist, you wouldn't have the chance to protest in the first place.

 

The occupy protestors are not necessarily anti capitalist. Nor are they protesting against capitalist values. Some might be, but not all of them. This is not about being anti capitalist.

 

Max Keiser on RT said it quite well the other day.

 

If you buy meat, and that meat is bad. You take it back to the butcher and demand your money back. That doesn't make you a vegetarian.

 

In this case banks have sold fraudulent derivatives and deregulated the financial system to make it unworkable and unfair. We want those derivatives out of the system and for the bankers to pay for what they have done. We want a capitalists system where everyone has a chance. Not one where the 1% monopolise everything and the rest of us get left in the cold.

[curtains]

How grateful I should feel..thanks for that.

 

If I get whacked over the head and my wallet stolen I'll just thank my attacker he existed so I can complain how fortunate I am.

 

Not saying you should feel grateful, but if you are so against certains things stop using them.

[onewheeldave]

After switching to a bank such as the Co OP what is the next step.

I have posted several times before that I fail to see how change can be brought about without using the political process.

Whatever one thinks of politicians or the present system it is politicians who have the real influence in society to change things.

Protests can influence people but politicians actually make the changes.

 

That's the bit that needs changing though- hence why Occupy aren't that keen wasting their energy & resources courting politicians.

 

Occupy know that it's the people who have the power to bring about this change- the politicians are proven liars and cheats- the process of becoming a politician virtually demands that they become insincere and manipulative- politicians are the last people to trust for the task of sorting out the corruption that is endemic throughout conventional politics.

 

The main reason I support Occupy is precisely because they seem to recognise that conforming to the misconception that the political system must be embraced before it can be changed is futile.

 

You don't tackle corruption by becoming corrupt yourself.

[Runnybabbit]

Do you really think that you will influence many people in Sheffield by a long polemic about the USA?

 

I hope people are concerned enough about the state of the world to read it.

 

Whether we like it or not, the financial system is international. The federal reserve is one of the main hubs of the problem as is the B.O.E. Both institutions are backed up by U.S. military power and run by U.S. politicians even though one of them is here. In all frankness we are little more than the 51st state anyway.

 

In fact most of the major banking fraud goes through London. What's happening in the U.S. is largely our responsibility due to our unregulated banking system.

 

It's no good pretending the Occupy movement is a U.S. only problem. What happens there affects us all.

 

That document is written from a U.S. perspective but it's conclusions are international in scope. We are all suffering from what Goldman Sachs has done.

[harvey19]

That's the bit that needs changing though- hence why Occupy aren't that keen wasting their energy & resources courting politicians.

 

Occupy know that it's the people who have the power to bring about this change- the politicians are proven liars and cheats- the process of becoming a politician virtually demands that they become insincere and manipulative- politicians are the last people to trust for the task of sorting out the corruption that is endemic throughout conventional politics.

 

The main reason I support Occupy is precisely because they seem to recognise that conforming to the misconception that the political system must be embraced before it can be changed is futile.

 

You don't tackle corruption by becoming corrupt yourself.

 

 

If Occupy were to achieve their aims they would still need leaders(politicians) to run the country.

When the time for protesting ends what happens then ?

[MrSmith]

That's the bit that needs changing though- hence why Occupy aren't that keen wasting their energy & resources courting politicians.

 

Occupy know that it's the people who have the power to bring about this change- the politicians are proven liars and cheats- the process of becoming a politician virtually demands that they become insincere and manipulative- politicians are the last people to trust for the task of sorting out the corruption that is endemic throughout conventional politics.

 

The main reason I support Occupy is precisely because they seem to recognise that conforming to the misconception that the political system must be embraced before it can be changed is futile.

 

You don't tackle corruption by becoming corrupt yourself.

 

I would think the logical approach then would be to from a political party and give the people a set of policies and allow the people to decide. There is little point telling us something that can only be changed by a government, if there isn’t a party willing to put the new policies into place.