curtains Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Currently the political process is an absolute JOKE. We have the internet and instant communication channels. IRC and P2P etc. It is perfectly feasible to put decision making power in the hands of ordinary citizens now. If we can put a camera on the phone of every citizen and broadcast live from every occupy protest we can certainly put live cameras in the house of commons and in all those little select committee rooms (As appose to selected highlights shown on BBC parliament weeks later). We can have cameras at the world bank, IMF, U.N. We can have all the documents distributed for everyone to read discuss and vote on. Where is the general citizens assembly, A U.K. wide IRC channel set up and run by the government? It doesn't exist yet, that's where. We can have a democracy now, the technology is here but we still don't. Why? The politicians are not going to create these things because it will mean a loss of power for them and their rich friends. Different groups have tried changing the system using the old politics for centuries and it hasn't worked. We still have the same Eton boys running things. The two party system we have is designed to prevent democracy, not enable it. There is clearly no salvation to be found in that system. You are so incredibly deluded it's unbelievable. What has a camera or IRC got to do with running a country? We're not 11 year olds trying to run a team in a computer game. I suggest the Occupy movement test this way of running a country with their own land first, just to show us all how it's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazybaby Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 What about the sick, elderly & unemployed & how would you deal with public services? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcol Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Currently the political process is an absolute JOKE. We have the internet and instant communication channels. IRC and P2P etc. It is perfectly feasible to put decision making power in the hands of ordinary citizens now. If we can put a camera on the phone of every citizen and broadcast live from every occupy protest we can certainly put live cameras in the house of commons and in all those little select committee rooms (As appose to selected highlights shown on BBC parliament weeks later). We can have cameras at the world bank, IMF, U.N. We can have all the documents distributed for everyone to read discuss and vote on. Where is the general citizens assembly, A U.K. wide IRC channel set up and run by the government? It doesn't exist yet, that's where. We can have a democracy now, the technology is here but we still don't. Why? Phew - with all these documents to read how is anyone going to have time to go to work? And won't all this put a lot of power in the hands of whoever controls the IT infrastructure - wouldn't it be easy for them to manipulate votes - or a bunch of hackers. And what about the 20% or so of people without PC's etc - don't they get to play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Currently the political process is an absolute JOKE. We have the internet and instant communication channels. IRC and P2P etc. It is perfectly feasible to put decision making power in the hands of ordinary citizens now. If we can put a camera on the phone of every citizen and broadcast live from every occupy protest we can certainly put live cameras in the house of commons and in all those little select committee rooms (As appose to selected highlights shown on BBC parliament weeks later). We can have cameras at the world bank, IMF, U.N. We can have all the documents distributed for everyone to read discuss and vote on. Where is the general citizens assembly, A U.K. wide IRC channel set up and run by the government? It doesn't exist yet, that's where. We can have a democracy now, the technology is here but we still don't. Why? The politicians are not going to create these things because it will mean a loss of power for them and their rich friends. Different groups have tried changing the system using the old politics for centuries and it hasn't worked. We still have the same Eton boys running things. The two party system we have is designed to prevent democracy, not enable it. There is clearly no salvation to be found in that system. DAVE, is this your perception of Occupys eventual way forward ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtains Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Phew - with all these documents to read how is anyone going to have time to go to work? And won't all this put a lot of power in the hands of whoever controls the IT infrastructure - wouldn't it be easy for them to manipulate votes - or a bunch of hackers. And what about the 20% or so of people without PC's etc - don't they get to play? Didn't you hear, there are no poor in the new order, everyone has an Apple PC and iPhone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey19 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Currently the political process is an absolute JOKE. We have the internet and instant communication channels. IRC and P2P etc. It is perfectly feasible to put decision making power in the hands of ordinary citizens now. If we can put a camera on the phone of every citizen and broadcast live from every occupy protest we can certainly put live cameras in the house of commons and in all those little select committee rooms (As appose to selected highlights shown on BBC parliament weeks later). We can have cameras at the world bank, IMF, U.N. We can have all the documents distributed for everyone to read discuss and vote on. Where is the general citizens assembly, A U.K. wide IRC channel set up and run by the government? It doesn't exist yet, that's where. We can have a democracy now, the technology is here but we still don't. Why? The politicians are not going to create these things because it will mean a loss of power for them and their rich friends. Different groups have tried changing the system using the old politics for centuries and it hasn't worked. We still have the same Eton boys running things. The two party system we have is designed to prevent democracy, not enable it. There is clearly no salvation to be found in that system. How do you intend to bring about this change ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcol Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Didn't you hear, there are no poor in the new order, everyone has an Apple PC and iPhone. And were all going to spend all day watching parliament, the IMF and goodness knows what else. No time to go to work, shop, eat, take part in leisure pursuits etc unless we miss the vital vote. How many days until the world comes to a grinding halt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runnybabbit Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Please explain this system further and how will this change happen. Gladly. First step, we need to fix our economy. Very briefly... We back every pound in the country with a KWH value in electricity. This is the value the government will exchange our pounds for. Monetary policy then becomes a matter of keeping the price of electricity below the government exchange rate. The banks can then no longer recklessly print money out of thin air because it's backed with a usable commodity. Using electricity also has lots of nice side effects. Firstly it means our economy is driven to be as efficient and green as possible. Secondly because anyone with a solar panel can create electricity it enables the distribution of the bankers ability to print new money. It's a bit like any one being able to mine gold in their back garden. We have smart grid technology ready for deployment now. The computer boffins are also working on a bitcoin style implementation of such a scheme. In fact examples of electricity vouchers that can be and are traded already exist. Coal has also been used as currency in a similar way in the past. Once the economy is pointing the right way and once the banker monopoly is broken up, their will be no hidden hand of the Rothschilds telling our politicians what to do. We will find they become much more responsive to the people once this satanic influence is removed. Implementing a peer to peer referendum and voting system wouldn't be difficult either. To start with it could be informal. As long as everyone can see how the public voted on issues (even if it had no effect on policy) we could all see how closely the politicians decisions matched the voting record of the public. If a politician chooses to go against the will of the people his policy had better work or else the majority of the people would be demanding to know why he thought he knew better than them. Too many such mistakes and the politicians would be out. Improving the access to information is essential. I want to see every square inch of the houses of parliament live on my phone. If we can do it with occupy protests why cant we do it with politics. I also want to see every document and have access to every bit of research. I want to hear every single word that comes out of MY prime ministers mouth. No more secret meetings, I want to be empowered with information. That goes for the BOE and it's Governor too (although by this time the banks decisions should be made for it by the availability of electricity) There is no reason why this has to stop with national politics. It's even more important that this is implemented at the world bank, UN, IMF, etc. Once these systems are in place we can slowly phase one set of politics out and give more power to the other. I envisage everyone having a smartphone that lets them vote on every single issue should they want to, with real time factual information fed in to the system by the same people who currently feed information to the government. Namely technicians, skilled in whatever policy area they are specialists in. If I feel strongly enough about an issue I can raise it in a huge public chat room. I can kind of imagine a huge forum with several channels and sub forums that could make up an alternative government. I'm trying to be brief but I hope you get the general idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtains Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Incredible, truly incredible. I'm just not sure whether this guy is a troll or actually being serious? I nearly wet myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splodgeyAl Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Incredible, truly incredible. I'm just not sure whether this guy is a troll or actually being serious? I nearly wet myself. Indeed, the current power base will never give anything up without a fight. As the Americans discovered all those years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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