Hypothetical Theology Question?

[f0rd]

But he (or rather, those who came a little bit after him) did convert a whole load of Jews, they became the early Christians.

Define whole load, obviously not enough to save him, while Barabbas got spared.

 

Edit, about the disciples and those that came after... sure they converted some, but there have many who claimed to be Messiah who had gathered a following such as Simon bar Kokhba. The difference was with Jesus, he preached to the gentiles too.

[Chris_Sleeps]

I don't see the difficulty in imagining it?

Of course, imagine away. My point is it's too big a point to unimagine Christianity. It wouldn't teach us anything about theology (not that there is anything to learn).

 

I think I was a little rushed yesterday, trying to squeeze my arguments into my dinner hour. Apologies if I came across as overly critical.

[MrSmith]

Without Jesus there wouldn’t be Christianity or Islam, Judaism would be the dominant religion, fewer wars would have been fought, so less advancement in technology. We would probably have lower population because of the lower technical advances and the fact Jews appear to have smaller families. Any advances in technology would have been use in a more productive way than war. Everyone would be happy so no one would claim that Jesus was the son of God.

[plekhanov]

First off: I'm not a student of theology or even bother about 'christianity!!!

 

But, lets say Jesus had never been born two thousand years ago and he had 'chosen' to arrive now. What chance would there be in this day and age of him 'converting' anyone, and what chance of survival? (leaving aside the "he had to die to save us all" argument of some people).

 

Personally, I think, not very long at all. No chance in fact!

In this scenario of yours does Jesus have the magical powers that the bible attributes to him? If so it seems likely that he'd convert a fair few people.

 

Even without them whilst the bible doesn't suggest he was all that charismatic (many other 'prophets' 'messiahs'... have attracted much greater followings in their lifetimes than Jesus managed despite having the advantage of being able to do miracles) but he had some charisma which can't hurt.

 

'Prophets' as transparently fraudulent L Ron Hubbard & Joseph Smith both managed to get plenty of converts, more than Jesus in fact. If they can manage it in modernish times then why couldn't Jesus get at least a few?

 

As for his chances of survival if he was operating in the west they'd be extremely high, we've got no shortage of religious whack-jobs preaching every kind of nonsense and they rarely seem to get themselves killed. Of course if he was seeking converts is less developed & free places in the world his chances of survival would be much lower.

[hard2miss]

First off: I'm not a student of theology or even bother about 'christianity!!!

 

But, lets say Jesus had never been born two thousand years ago and he had 'chosen' to arrive now. What chance would there be in this day and age of him 'converting' anyone, and what chance of survival? (leaving aside the "he had to die to save us all" argument of some people).

 

Personally, I think, not very long at all. No chance in fact!

Your mistake is in thinking that Christianity came about in the life and times of our lord, when in fact it took hundreds of years to get the message of the saviour out.

 

I am sure he would have gotten his 12 or so followers even today, if the Scientology nutters are anything to go on, then I reckon he would probably be a lot more successful in his life time today than he was back then.

[plekhanov]

But he (or rather, those who came a little bit after him) did convert a whole load of Jews, they became the early Christians.

From what I've read they had more success amongst the pagans. The continued failure to convert Jews is generally reckoned to be a major reason for the escalating levels of anti-Jewish sentiment in early Christian writings.

 

Converting Jews was in some ways harder than converting pagans as Jews had been taught to expect the Messiah to make some rather significant changes in this world, not get executed without having achieved anything.

[Chris_Sleeps]

Converting Jews was in some ways harder than converting pagans as Jews had been taught to expect the Messiah

Then factor in the depth of commitment (or dogma) that 1st-2nd century Judaism had in their own beliefs. They were willing to be put to death rather than eat pork or stop circumcision. A dispute about the Messiah would've taken a tidal wave to shift their views.

[RootsBooster]

In this scenario of yours does Jesus have the magical powers that the bible attributes to him? If so it seems likely that he'd convert a fair few people.

 

Even without them whilst the bible doesn't suggest he was all that charismatic (many other 'prophets' 'messiahs'... have attracted much greater followings in their lifetimes than Jesus managed despite having the advantage of being able to do miracles) but he had some charisma which can't hurt.

 

'Prophets' as transparently fraudulent L Ron Hubbard & Joseph Smith both managed to get plenty of converts, more than Jesus in fact. If they can manage it in modernish times then why couldn't Jesus get at least a few?

 

As for his chances of survival if he was operating in the west they'd be extremely high, we've got no shortage of religious whack-jobs preaching every kind of nonsense and they rarely seem to get themselves killed. Of course if he was seeking converts is less developed & free places in the world his chances of survival would be much lower.

 

I was going to make this point but then saw Plek already had!

 

If Jesus did show up today and could perform all his miracles in a controlled environment successfully then he would certainly get some followers. I know I'd look further into his claims.

 

Your mistake is in thinking that Christianity came about in the life and times of our lord, when in fact it took hundreds of years to get the message of the saviour out.

 

I am sure he would have gotten his 12 or so followers even today, if the Scientology nutters are anything to go on, then I reckon he would probably be a lot more successful in his life time today than he was back then.

 

What's the difference between Christians and Scientologists that qualifies the latter as nutters?

[hard2miss]

What's the difference between Christians and Scientologists that qualifies the latter as nutters?

One is following the teachings of a man that actually existed, and many think that because of his wiseness, compassion, love and forgiveness to the extent to where he died for those belief's he must have been divine and even call him the son of God. (you can debate about what God means til the cows come home)

 

The other is the following of a bloke that thinks we were all from another planet or something nutty.

[quisquose]

Assuming for a moment that there is a God, and she was to send a messiah guy to pay us a visit.

 

What would be the reaction of the Christians today? Or the Muslims, or the Jews, for that matter?

 

I suspect that if there was any danger to Jesus (or whatever he was called) today, it would come from these people. The people with so much emotional investment in their dogma that they would refuse to believe this person, no matter the evidence. Some of these people can get quite annoyed and kill people because of cartoons or books. Ironically, his supporters initially could be the agnostics and atheists.

 

However, as I said earlier, he's God. He knows what is required to convince me, you, and everybody else. If he wanted to survive he would, if he wanted to convert he would, if he wanted peace it would happen. Makes you wonder why he has failed so miserably in the past.