purdy Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Do the sums yourself. The extra public sector workers taken on cannot not account for any more than 10 billion quid, even with very generous rates of pay. The NHS system and other systems again account for a small proportion. Maybe 1% of GDP. Keep trying. Do the sums yourself. By the way people like to be paid every year not just once, but you're the mathematician. It isn't me that is trying to defend the last government. It is a fact that they increased government debts from around £400 million to over £1000 million in the course of 13 years in office. It is perhaps a question that you should address to your local MP, if like me you don't feel that there is an awful lot to show in return for spending every penny raised through 13 years of increased taxation as well as £600 billion besides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Why is it idiocy to apply stimulus if it restricts debt increase caused by declining revenues? The logic that spending more reduces debt is idiocy. Spending money that you don't have increases debt, not reduces it. If every pound spent on stimulus prevents at least a one pound increase in debt caused by revenue loss it is worth it. If that were true yes. But that would mean the government should spend an infinite amount and that money grows on trees. That is not even taking into account multiplier effects from the stimulus spend. Germany applied massive direct stimulus after 2008. It seemed to work ok for them. USA too, and they appear to be ahead of us in terms of establishing a recovery with some encouraging signs recently. Spending stimulus that came from money saved during the boom, not funded by yet more debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purdy Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The logic that spending more reduces debt is idiocy. Spending money that you don't have increases debt, not reduces it. If that were true yes. But that would mean the government should spend an infinite amount and that money grows on trees. Spending stimulus that came from money saved during the boom, not funded by yet more debt. You are also forgetting that in May 2010 the credit rating agencies were warning of a downgrade of our AAA credit rating unless the government put forward a credible plan cut cut the deficit. Had we not taken those steps we would now be like France and most of the other Europen countries in paying a far greater premium on that debt. Doubling the amount you pay to finance debt from £30 billion to £60 billion doesn't exactly contribute £30 billion to anything other than the speculators. http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/may/11/uk-credit-rating-downgrade-threat-lib-lab-deal Britain would most likely suffer an expensive and potentially damaging downgrade to its debt rating if the Liberal Democrats form a coalition with Labour, City analysts warned today amid ongoing uncertainty about the creation of a new government. As the Institute of Directors called on political parties to focus on the economy rather than the need for electoral reform, analysts at BNP Paribas reckoned that a "Lab-Lib government is the least liked option by markets and would almost guarantee a downgrade of the UK sovereign [debt]". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Do the sums yourself. By the way people like to be paid every year not just once I have done the sums and told you the result. 10 Billion is the top end figure for 2 years. Read earlier posts carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 The logic that spending more reduces debt is idiocy. Spending money that you don't have increases debt, not reduces it. If that were true yes. But that would mean the government should spend an infinite amount and that money grows on trees. Spending stimulus that came from money saved during the boom, not funded by yet more debt. Spending money you don't have if it results in more coming back than what you spent makes sense. I never said infinite amounts should be spent. Spending money accumulated earlier would be better of course. It rarely works out to be possible though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T 42 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Spending money you don't have if it results in more coming back than what you spent makes sense. I never said infinite amounts should be spent. Spending money accumulated earlier would be better of course. It rarely works out to be possible though. What a pity the last government spent so much of it in the good times. I'm sure we would all be a lot better off if the government had anything left to spend but Gordon left the coffers empty, a debt of over a £trillion and a budget shortfall of more than £150 billion. Apart from that I agree with everything you are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricgem2002 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 You were wrong, you said "the debt" implying the current level of debt. Labour inherited a moderate amount of debt and handed on a massive amount. With regards to Labour fixing the situation the tories leave by spending, past evidence would suggest that they hand out economic fillips to everyone, run up a huge debt spending money they don't have and then hand it on when the pyramid scheme becomes too obvious to ignore. sorry but i was right (again) the tories left labour with a £400 million debt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purdy Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 sorry but i was right (again) the tories left labour with a £400 million debt Which they transformed into £1000 million of debt. That's some achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricgem2002 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Which they transformed into £1000 million of debt. That's some achievement. i wonder what it will be when labour get back in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purdy Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 i wonder what it will be when labour get back in May 2025 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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