Rich Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 100% employment, as much as it should happen, will never happen, the Government won't let it, they need a few Million unemployed to keep the taxes going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Well the way I see it, a few people are going to get very rich at the expense of millions of poor out of work people, (which is happening now,) and no one will be able to afford the goods except the rich (which is also happening now) or we find a way to divide the work up and share the money. Should we be wasting time fighting a losing battle against unemployment, or start trying to think in new ways which might generate a more satisfactory outcome. Can we generate meaningful employment for everyone? When you look at the UK population in 1871 it was about 21 million. Now it's over 3 times that. Back then everything from industry, mining and fishing to farming was very people intensive. Now so much is automated we just don't need anything like the number of unskilled people we did then and we have a lot of unskilled people. Look at the sectors where unskilled labour is needed like fruit and vegetable harvesting and processing, the vast majority is done by foreigners on "minimum wage" but with cost of cramped communal digs taken off that actually for a lot less than the minimum wage. If the population continues to grow then even without competition from eastern europeans (ie if we leave the EU) we are a going to have a significant underclass of unskilled and pretty much unemployable people. Given that technology will be utilised by our competitors even if we voluntarilly eschew it I can't see any long term solutions for providing these people with employment so reducing the number would seem to be the only way to tackle the issue. Certainly reversing perverse incentives for those permenantly dependant on the state to have more children would be a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltesecross Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 This is what they was saying in the late 70's early 80's with the introduction of computerisation. In a way it is true, no more typist pools and look how it has simplified accounts. On the other hand bricklayers and plasterers still graft but their labourers seem to be missing? Lets face it though, compared to 30+ years ago, goods like tv's and cars have become cheaper and it is now a throw away society. Goods are also better made and easily available via the net and couriers. It is the low educated what is going to suffer but there again benefits have never been so good? So are we really worse off? In fact some workers are worse off than the unemployed. Enter Chem1st Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMaquis Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 It is the low educated what is going to suffer..... Yes. The low educated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syne Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 there is no real reason why there can't be wealthy people and 'poor' people and everyone be happy/fulfilled and provided for as they each see fit. but thats currently the realm of sci-fi. in my opinion solar panels/water powered cars are a good example, the people who currently are very wealthy due to fuel-costs- do not want to see solar panels etc and water powered cars become commonplace as this is a threat to the current status quo. However it is inevitable that one day these things will be commonplace and if we (or they) were to start a massive manufacturing industry to equip every family with a water powered car and enough solar panels to fulfil all their energy/travel needs then that alone would provide more money than oil and gas etc ever could, and the rich would stay rich and the 'poor's' lot would be better. the same goes for food. if all the corn grown in the world was fed to humans, no-one would ever be hungry. but its fed to animals. what do cows eat? It's fed to animals as the price of beef is higher than the price of corn. once food energy and travel are evenly distributed then you could start a decent utopian society then an exploration of space. and that should be the future.. in my opinion any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricgem2002 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Because governments like Labour from 1997 to 2010 had policies which resulted in the gap between rich and poor getting wider. and condem ones now are bridging that gap are they Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 The trouble is the super rich are super greedy and will suction up all the wealth, (It's happening all ready) Being the ultimate Capitalists they don't believe in welfare. They already have a strangle hold on Government money. So what will be left for the rest of us? There will be nothing left to share out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 there is no real reason why there can't be wealthy people and 'poor' people and everyone be happy/fulfilled and provided for as they each see fit. but thats currently the realm of sci-fi. in my opinion solar panels/water powered cars are a good example, the people who currently are very wealthy due to fuel-costs- do not want to see solar panels etc and water powered cars become commonplace as this is a threat to the current status quo. However it is inevitable that one day these things will be commonplace and if we (or they) were to start a massive manufacturing industry to equip every family with a water powered car and enough solar panels to fulfil all their energy/travel needs then that alone would provide more money than oil and gas etc ever could, and the rich would stay rich and the 'poor's' lot would be better. the same goes for food. if all the corn grown in the world was fed to humans, no-one would ever be hungry. but its fed to animals. what do cows eat? It's fed to animals as the price of beef is higher than the price of corn. once food energy and travel are evenly distributed then you could start a decent utopian society then an exploration of space. and that should be the future.. in my opinion any way. Therein lies the problem. Who's the 'we' you mention? Once companies pose a threat they get taken over by the big boys. The tops of companies are deliberately shrouded in mystery so no one knows who owns what, but the ultimate game is like Monopoly, to be the last one standing. As for food, starvation is nothing to do with there not being enough to go round. Starving countries export food to pay their debts. We then give them aid which ruins their economy and keeps them poor. The reason food prices are rising is due entirely to speculative bankers buying and inflating food commodity prices, in much the same way as they inflated house prices. The last thing the rich want is a decent Utopian Society. And the rich always get what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 there is no real reason why there can't be wealthy people and 'poor' people and everyone be happy/fulfilled and provided for as they each see fit. but thats currently the realm of sci-fi. in my opinion solar panels/water powered cars are a good example, the people who currently are very wealthy due to fuel-costs- do not want to see solar panels etc and water powered cars become commonplace as this is a threat to the current status quo. However it is inevitable that one day these things will be commonplace and if we (or they) were to start a massive manufacturing industry to equip every family with a water powered car and enough solar panels to fulfil all their energy/travel needs then that alone would provide more money than oil and gas etc ever could, and the rich would stay rich and the 'poor's' lot would be better. the same goes for food. if all the corn grown in the world was fed to humans, no-one would ever be hungry. but its fed to animals. what do cows eat? It's fed to animals as the price of beef is higher than the price of corn. once food energy and travel are evenly distributed then you could start a decent utopian society then an exploration of space. and that should be the future.. in my opinion any way. mmmm the thought of it, corn for breakfast, lunch and dinner, tasty NOT. That’s what cows are for they turn crap into something worth eating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosxuk Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Because governments like Labour from 1997 to 2010 had policies which resulted in the gap between rich and poor getting wider. And the rich / poor divide only exists in the UK, and didn't exist until 1997? 100% employment, as much as it should happen, will never happen, the Government won't let it, they need a few Million unemployed to keep the taxes going. How do the unemployed contribute to taxation that the employed do not? Computers, mechanisation etc are now affecting the jobs markets world wide. Put simply, there are simply not going to be enough jobs to go round. Civilisation has a funny way of stopping this from happening in two ways. 1) As more people shift from industrial work, more jobs are created in the service and leisure industries to provide the non-workers with things to do. 2) As with food levels, jobs affect the number of children that are born. When there is lots of food/jobs around, populations increase. When there is a shortage, the birth rate decreases. (remember that if only a handful were working, there wouldn't be enough tax to fund benefits, so the current trend of bringing up a squadron of kids for the benefit money wouldn't work). In other words, if all the jobs today got replaced by industrialisation and automation, we'd find other things to do, and after a few generations, there'd be less people around to try and find jobs for anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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