janie48 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Janie I'd just like to add to Jimmy's post... or you may have been born without belief (as we all are) and never be introduced to the idea of any of the gods or religions. As highly unlikely as this situation would be, it means you would be a lifelong atheist, never once having a belief. Yes Roots, that as added further clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 So what? As has been established numerous times atheism is not something you need proclaim or even be conscious of, it is simply a state of being. So apart from babies and very young children, who else would be unaware of the concept of God/s? I understand what you're telling me, but I fail to see how it relates to atheists that proclaim they have no belief in God/s. Posted by plekhanov A state of being many children are in, either because they've never been indoctrinated into believing in a sky pixie or as happened in my case they throw off sustained attempts at indoctrination. Alright, so if a mother who had no belief in God/s told her young child (who had no concept of God/s) that his/her granny was in heaven, both the mother and child would be classed as atheists? Posted by Plekhanov Besides do you really expect us to believe that all these "lots of children" tha you've met associate Easter "with the death of Christ (good friday) and the Resurrection of Christ (easter sunday) and bank holiday monday" rather than chocolate? I reckon that the majority of children would associate easter with eating chocolate. They'd associate Christmas with opening presents and seeing their cousins, aunties and uncles for the first time in ages, and seeing the grown-ups a little worst for wear. They probably never associate religion to Christmas at all, not even when they're singing hymns like little donkey and the like, or on seeing the occasional religiously themed Christmas cards that their mums and dads send out to their friends and family members. They probably associate no religious significance to anything that's over commercialized now-a-days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 This a wrong assumption on your part. It's this questioning that led to me being an atheist. I strongly believe that this is the only life we have, there is no second chance or no afterlife and for me that make life it's self so valuable, fragile and beautiful because it's the only one I'll ever have. Also it's worth considering that any altruistic acts carried out by an atheist are carried because they believe those acts to be the right thing to do, not for any reward, or an eternal resting place in paradise. For example, a solider who is an atheist who sacrifices their life is giving up everything for no personal reward, whereas a 100% committed Christian who sacrifices their life is only really going to look forward to spending eternity in paradise. Who is making the bigger sacrifice? Does this mean that mean that atheists are better people? I don't actually believe this myself, as everyone is an individual, but it is an interesting debating point. I can't disagree with that, the one thing we may all agree on is that whether we involved or was made by a God, we are all different, with different opinions, and these differences will cause more disagreements and wars in the years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 So you concede then that your whole line of argument in amongst others the following posts was entirely wrong then?No I wouldn't. Posted by Plekhanov"would those who partake in the annual commemoration of the birth, death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ be counted as being atheists?" "No, I doubt that that is the case. I suspect that most people have always associated easter with the death of Christ (good friday) and the Resurrection of Christ (easter sunday) and bank holiday monday." To the first point- Good friday and easter sunday are associated to the death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ, that's the purpose of the holiday, i'ts on par with when we were given a day off for the royal wedding, because we're given good friday and easter sunday to commemorate the death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. Doesn't matter whether you believe in him or not.. the purpose of the holiday doesn't change, nor does the religious significance. To the second point- That was in relation to the significance of Easter eggs, not the significance of Easter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I think you should take a break. why is that? Would you care to point out the contradictions? I did'nt mention anything about contradictions. It was a hasty comment but was not meant to be rude.I was merely referring to your continual amount of postings in consequence,and thought a break would be of benifit. In retrospect i see that you were responding to the comments of other posters and showing good manners by replying to them. I realise it was not really my business to pass comment on that matter and i apologise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 This a wrong assumption on your part. It's this questioning that led to me being an atheist. I strongly believe that this is the only life we have, there is no second chance or no afterlife and for me that make life it's self so valuable, fragile and beautiful because it's the only one I'll ever have. Also it's worth considering that any altruistic acts carried out by an atheist are carried because they believe those acts to be the right thing to do, not for any reward, or an eternal resting place in paradise. For example, a solider who is an atheist who sacrifices their life is giving up everything for no personal reward, whereas a 100% committed Christian who sacrifices their life is only really going to look forward to spending eternity in paradise. Who is making the bigger sacrifice? Does this mean that mean that atheists are better people? I don't actually believe this myself, as everyone is an individual, but it is an interesting debating point. Please do not assume that altruistic acts are carried out by all christians because they are only looking forward to an eternal paradise that is blatantly untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quisquose Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Please do not assume that altruistic acts are carried out by all christians because they are only looking forward to an eternal paradise that is blatantly untrue. I didn't read his post that in that manner. He was merely asking an interesting question for the purpose of debate. Whenever people do something altruistic, is the person who does not believe in an afterlife actually being more altruistic than a person who does the same act but believes in an afterlife where you are rewarded for altruistic acts? This is not just a question of motivation, but also opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Please do not assume that altruistic acts are carried out by all christians because they are only looking forward to an eternal paradise that is blatantly untrue. Yeah I was wondering where JFK had got that from. Bit of an odd statement, somebody who is Christian can do a good deed for any reason. Just because he/she believes that the act would put them in good favour with God, doesn't mean that is reason for carrying out the deed. Just as an atheist can do a good deed for selfish gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I didn't read his post that in that manner. He was merely asking an interesting question for the purpose of debate. Whenever people do something altruistic, is the person who does not believe in an afterlife actually being more altruistic than a person who does the same act but believes in an afterlife where you are rewarded for altruistic acts? This is not just a question of motivation, but also opinion. It seems you are implying that the person who believes in an afterlife is not going to do anything good unless they think they are going to be rewarded for it. I don't believe that. I doubt wether they all spend their every day life thinking about an afterlife,I know i certainly don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Yeah I was wondering where JFK had got that from. Bit of an odd statement, somebody who is Christian can do a good deed for any reason. Just because he/she believes that the act would put them in good favour with God, doesn't mean that is reason for carrying out the deed. Just as an atheist can do a good deed for selfish gain. I suspect their may be some who share the same view as JFK ,maybe he will explain where he got it from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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