danot Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 The opposite of not having a belief that God exists is having a belief that God exists. The opposite of believing God does NOT exist is believing that God DOES exist. The crucial difference here is that the wording in red amounts to the same thing, whereas the wording in blue does NOT. I see. So what would be the opposite of this blue question which you failed to mention?- not having a belief that God doesn't exist. Originally posted by RootsBooster ... this is relevant to atheism how? You mean this? Originally posted by danot "Now you could argue that it wouldn't apply to someone who never thinks about God, someone who has never had any conscious thoughts about God, but how many people could say that they've never had any conscious thoughts about God?... I'd say None. I'd say that thinking about God is a constant factor within the human psyche, so is believing, so is not believing." I feel It's relevant to atheism because I don't believe that the human psyche allows anyone to never have any conscious thoughts about the reason for the universe's existence and whether it was created or not. I'd say that the desire to know the answer to that question is, if you like, built within the human psyche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 So a baby that is Christened remains an atheist until they become consciously aware of their God? So in effect, you can't become an atheist, it's more a case of having to make a conscious decision to no longer be an atheist. Wow, so the parents of the baby don't get a choice in the matter? What was that someone said about theists and how they indoctrinate their children. Yep that’s right when I was Christened, I had no belief in God so I was still an atheist and not a theist, when I was confirmed I was still an atheist and only a Christian because that’s what my parents wanted me to be, After many years of being forced to be a Christian I still remained an atheist, despite all the Christian teaching I received I still had no belief in God so remained an atheist. I have an interest in religion and despite all the religious study I am still an atheist. At the time I didn’t know I was an atheist because I hadn’t come across the word as a young child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 I would think that most theists say that god created the universe and most atheists say they don’t know what of if it was created but don’t believe it was a God.But could atheists believe it was created? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 I think the only way somebody can be a hyprocrite purely as an atheist is if they have a belief in a God.Or if they give false representation by pretending to believe in God in order to have the church wedding they've always wanted. Or tell small children that their recently deceased granny has gone up to granddad and baby Jesus in heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 It becomes the logical conclusion only because the presumption is that logic applies to the unknown phenomena, but why should logic apply when the universal laws of physics and the rules of contemporary science do not? That just come back to I don't know why the universe is here but it must have been caused and if it was caused there must also be something else I don't know about to allow it to happen. You are making something up so that which you made up works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 This a wrong assumption on your part. It's this questioning that led to me being an atheist. I strongly believe that this is the only life we have, there is no second chance or no afterlife and for me that make life it's self so valuable, fragile and beautiful because it's the only one I'll ever have. Also it's worth considering that any altruistic acts carried out by an atheist are carried because they believe those acts to be the right thing to do, not for any reward, or an eternal resting place in paradise. For example, a solider who is an atheist who sacrifices their life is giving up everything for no personal reward, whereas a 100% committed Christian who sacrifices their life is only really going to look forward to spending eternity in paradise. Who is making the bigger sacrifice? Does this mean that mean that atheists are better people? I don't actually believe this myself, as everyone is an individual, but it is an interesting debating point. I completely agree with you in respect to any act of kindness that is done to win Gods favour is an insincere self serving act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 But could atheists believe it was created? An atheist can believe it was created by some kind of reaction, if they prove that matter can spontaneously come into existence from a vacuum then the universe was created by a vacuum, and not an all powerful all knowing entity. The point is that most atheists probably don’t care why the universe is here and they can live with the fact that it is just here. Theists do care where is came from and because they don’t know why or how it came into existence it must have been created by a God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 No you wouldn't, don't be so wilfully perverse. The fossil record clearly duscredists creationism and no definition of God is required. The fossil record only discredits the claims of those who refuse to accept the overwhelming evidence that life on earth did evolve. It doesn't discredit or dispel the idea of the universe having a creator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 The fossil record only discredits the claims of those who refuse to accept the overwhelming evidence that life on earth did evolve. It doesn't discredit or dispel the idea of the universe having a creator. Other than the fact that the creator supposedly told the people that wrote the various religious books what to write which turned out to be wrong, so there is no reason to think any of it is correct, and as many people have always thought it was written by a man using his own imagination. It’s amazing what we can create in our minds that can’t possibly exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quisquose Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 The fossil record only discredits the claims of those who refuse to accept the overwhelming evidence that life on earth did evolve. It doesn't discredit or dispel the idea of the universe having a creator. That's not what Halibut said. He said that the fossil record discredits creationism, not the idea that the universe had a creator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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