RootsBooster Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Okay now I'm confused, I thought we were talking about JFKvsNIXON's post ! The one where he said Christians do stuff to get into heaven and atheists do stuff because they know it's the right thing to do! That is just a gross distortion of my post. It wasn't a word for word quote obviously, but your post seemed to imply the same meaning... any altruistic acts carried out by an atheist are carried because they believe those acts to be the right thing to do ....atheist doing stuff because they know it's the right thing to do For example, a solider who is an atheist who sacrifices their life is giving up everything for no personal reward, whereas a 100% committed Christian who sacrifices their life is only really going to look forward to spending eternity in paradise. ...seems to imply a Christian would only do the good deed to get into heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthenekred Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 The fossil record only discredits the claims of those who refuse to accept the overwhelming evidence that life on earth did evolve. It doesn't discredit or dispel the idea of the universe having a creator. Why would it dispel or discredit? The "idea" is no more relevant than the idea that you are a God. Man has been convinced of a creator in some form or other, probably as long as he has existed. Are you saying that Neanderthal man based his knowledge on science..or could it be a natural human phenomena like fear? You seem to be advocating that any idea shouldn't be dismissed regarding the creation of the universe just because it's an idea alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I see. So what would be the opposite of this blue question which you failed to mention?- not having a belief that God doesn't exist. I haven't failed to mention that question, you've just invented it now. it means the same as having a belief that God exists, but since you phrased it as a double negative (complicating it for no reason) I'm not sure if the true opposite to your wording would be a) HAVING a belief that God doesn't exist (opposing the NOT having) or b) HAVING a belief that God DOES exist (opposing both the NOT having and the DOESN'T exist) .....semantically speaking. I don't know why you decided to mince your words like this but it's got me wondering on a purely pendantic level now about semantics in double negatives! I feel It's relevant to atheism because I don't believe that the human psyche allows anyone to never have any conscious thoughts about the reason for the universe's existence and whether it was created or not. I'd say that the desire to know the answer to that question is, if you like, built within the human psyche. Still not seeing the relevance. Are you saying that you think a person has to have conscious thoughts about the reason for the universe's existence to qualify as an atheist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryedo40 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 But could atheists believe it was created? I don't really agree with the term 'created'. It implies there is a creator with intent. I see the universe as having no intention or purpose behind it. So, IMO, it hasn't been created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 You don't appear to understand what hypocrisy is. What are you on about? The analogy I used about driving was illustrating how faith (represented by choosing to abide by the speed limit) would be replaced by fear (represented by needing to abide by the speed limit) if you knew that God existed and was watching you (represented by speed camera's and the police) and was likely to punish you for any wrong doing (represented by exceeding the speed limit). I didn't use it to define hypocrisy. Yes you did, look... When the things you say are being contradicted by the things you do, you become an hypocrite. You mean like this... ...? No that's not hypocritical. Put it this way- To give you an example I'll use the analogy that most drivers slow down their car when they know there's a speed camera or police car ahead? That's because they fear the consciences of being punished for not abiding by the speed limit. Some people do abide by the speed limit due to a combination of feeling that it's the law, feeling that it's the safe way to drive, and through fear of being caught and punished. Others only slow down when they know they have to. But if every driver knew they would be caught and punished whenever they exceeded the speed limit, they wouldn't speed at all. Not because they feel it's the safest way to drive, but because they fear being punished. See? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 I haven't tried to discredit creationism. I wasn't referring to you personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 It wasn't a word for word quote obviously, but your post seemed to imply the same meaning... ....atheist doing stuff because they know it's the right thing to do ...seems to imply a Christian would only do the good deed to get into heaven. I didn't mean imply anything, I just thought that it was an interesting statement. Now of course, plenty of religious people are genuine nice people who enjoy doing good, but from my memory of times when I accompanied friends to go with them to church at their request in the hope that "I'd see the light" it was very much a case of, please God and you'll go to heaven. I'll always remember a discussion I had with one of their friends in church discussing my atheism; I said if I was wrong and there is a god I believe that he would have recognised that I'd lived a good life and I'd go to heaven, to which I had the curt reply that this assumption was wrong. Without the worship heaven would be closed to me. Although it didn't upset me in the slightest, it's something that I find baffling, maybe as an atheist it's something that I'll never get. My only issue with religion per se, is the connection that some make with morals and religion. That somehow people who do not follow a religion have less morals than people who do. Maybe this confused matters when I posted: For example, a solider who is an atheist who sacrifices their life is giving up everything for no personal reward, whereas a 100% committed Christian who sacrifices their life is only really going to look forward to spending eternity in paradise. Who is making the bigger sacrifice? Again I meant this literally, and not to cast aspirations. I was trying to suggest that a Christian soldier who is just about to die will have some sort comfort in the knowledge that there is a future for them, (a very desirable eternal existence, if the Bible is to be believed), whereas for the atheist solider it is the end of everything. So surely it follows that that someone who is giving up everything they have ever known is making a bigger sacrifice than someone who is exchanging their place on Earth for eternal paradise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 But you would need to define God in order to discredit creationism. creationism The belief that the universe and living organisms originate from specific acts of divine creation, as in the biblical account, rather than by natural processes such as evolution. God is defined in the bible which is the biblical account and that God is imposible so didn't creat anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 You need to re-read my post, especially this part of the post. It was your comparison to the actions of a christian soldier/atheist soldier,that touched a raw nerve with me. Perhaps thats why i had a lapse of concentration and missed the final comment in your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 It was your comparison to the actions of a christian soldier/atheist soldier,that touched a raw nerve with me. Perhaps thats why i had a lapse of concentration and missed the final comment in your post. Read my post above (post number 467) where I try to qualify my statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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