quisquose Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Believing that the universe could have always existed does not require any faith at all. Something must have either come into being from nothing, or always existed, this must be true. The only thing that we know exists is the universe and everything in it. So the simplest and most reasonable position is that the universe has either always existed or came into being from nothing. There is no reason to suggest anything else exists at all, that is where the leap of faith comes in, when you add god to the picture. What makes me laugh is the added layers of complication that are necessitated in order to add the extra ingredient of "god". We don't even know if nothing is possible, but we are constantly asked "how can something come from nothing?" like that is some sort of gotcha question. Basically start with nothing (which might be impossible), add god, and magic something. Why not just something (which we know exists)? Besides, what magicked god? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Him/her?.. Phenomena- Phenomena's are often, but not always, understood as 'appearances' or 'experiences' these are themselves sometimes understood as involving Qualia (latin word meaning 'what sort' or 'what kind' is a term used in philosophy to refer to subjective conscious experiences.) Where did you get that definition from? Anyway, how is God an "appearance" or "experience?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Is this another one of those desperate attempts at getting into the apple pie gang? What is the apple pie gang? I wanted to ask before,but you were busy replying to so many posts. Is it an exclusive club for atheists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Is that a general atheist view then? That the sacrifice of an atheist would be a BIGGER one. No, I am not the atheist spokes person so I cannot speak for anyone else apart from myself. I'm not sure I believe it myself, but it is an interesting concept to debate. Maybe the natural progression from the question about sacrifice would be questioning why a Christian's funeral be isn't a happy occasion, the chance to ascend into heaven for a Christian most a pretty happy event. Sure you'll miss your loved ones for a short while but you'll soon be together again for eternity in heaven. So why are Christian funerals so solemn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 That would imply their opinion is they just do and there isn't a reason, we exist because life was inevitable. Life is merely the inevitable product of creation. Was creation the inevitable product of something also, or was it simply an unknown, causeless event that has no reason to create life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Each atheist is different it depends on the person. It does depend on the person to an degree. I'll accept that people are diverse in nature, but the beliefs on which atheism is constructed are not. They only allow atheists to either have no belief, or choose not to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 No, I am not the atheist spokes person so I cannot speak for anyone else apart from myself. I'm not sure I believe it myself, but it is an interesting concept to debate. Maybe the natural progression from the question about sacrifice would be questioning why a Christian's funeral be isn't a happy occasion, the chance to ascend into heaven for a Christian most a pretty happy event. Sure you'll miss your loved ones for a short while but you'll soon be together again for eternity in heaven. So why are Christian funerals so solemn? I've attended a lot of funerals in recent years, and they hav'nt all been solemn.,however you would not be human if you did not feel great sadness at the loss of someone you love. As for seeing them again in heaven,Its comforting to feel they are there. BUT I CAN'T ASSUME I WILL BE GOING THERE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hang on... but the beliefs on which atheism is constructed are not. They only allow atheists to either have no belief, or choose not to believe. ...WHAT??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkey Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Does claiming that universe could have always existed without needing a cause conform to conventional logic or the laws of quantum physics? The various theories about the univesrse always having existed would hardly be given space in scientific journals if they had been proposed by binmen with GCSE's in technical drawing, I think it is safe to presume they conform to accepted laws of physics. However - as was pointed out by flamingjimmy - you wouldn't have to be a genius to work out by conventional logic that it is possible the universe has always existed. The cosmos either appeared from nothing at some point (including creator theories) or it has always been there (like the creator supposedly has). Each possibility is as improbable as the other, but one of them must be true. Do you think it is possible for a creator to have always existed, but not the universe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Did you at any time this morning believe in Cuththa, the invisible spirit that lives in my pocket? Do you believe in it now? Was your lack of belief in it this morning because you were indoctrinated to not believe in it, or simply that you were unaware of it? It was because I wasn't aware of it. But you can't compare the example of my not knowing about your invisible pocket spirit with that of a baby, who despite being baptized, still remains an atheist according to the fundamental principles of atheism. Not that it matters to the baby, but it probably matters to the parents who might feel that the principles of atheism override the significance of their baby's christening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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