danot Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 The basis of the creationist argument is "unknown phenomena"? Good argument. The phenomena responsible for causing the quantum fluctuations that caused the universe to pop into existence is unknown. Good theory more like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 When you say "we know" and "we can prove", I assume that you actually mean 'the logical argument and scientific theories with which you 'concur'? If no, could you provide me with evidence of the proof you're speaking about. We know the universe exists because we can see it; we don't have the ability to create matter and energy from nothing and I see no reason for now to assume it can be, therefore the universe as always existed. For it to be anything different to that you will have to make improvable assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 The only one that isn't a theory is that the universe exists and matter can't be created or destroyed but can change form, so until proven otherwise it’s always existed.But to change form, wouldn't it go through a transition?. If so, which state of the transition cycle would have occurred first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I'm referring to the unknown phenomena that caused the completely random quantum fluctuations to spontaneously pop into existence. I don't know any atheists who refer to an unknown phenomena. What you are describing doesn't sound like a phenomena either, it cannot be witnessed, experienced or observed. If the universe did spontaneously pop into existence due to random quantum fluctuations; which are themselves a manifestation of natural law according to physicists, i.e. The laws of quantum mechanics, why do physicists also claim that quantum fluctuations are the cause of natural law? They can't have it both ways. If you give a source example of this I will have a look and see if I can tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I answered it twice?... must have been a cracking question. You are rubbish at coherence and continuity danot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Where did you get that definition from? Anyway, how is God an "appearance" or "experience?" Just google qualia and you'll find it. Isn't believing God exists in essence a feeling experienced through subjective consciousness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You missed out igtheist from your sig, RootsBooster. When I find a reliable source for the definition of one, I will know if it applies to me or not. Interestingly though, I stumbled across this... Tritheism- (in Christian theology) the doctrine of or belief in the three persons of the Trinity as three distinct gods. I don't think I've EVER heard of any Christian branches that believe this! I'd love to ask some about it though. Anyone know any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Just google qualia and you'll find it. No, if you want answers to you questions, it's your place to provide specific examples of what you are questioning. Not "go look for it yourself". Isn't believing God exists in essence a feeling experienced through subjective consciousness? No, it's a belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 But to change form, wouldn't it go through a transition?. If so, which state of the transition cycle would have occurred first? Neither, it’s infinite so there isn’t a starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 What is the apple pie gang? I wanted to ask before,but you were busy replying to so many posts. Is it an exclusive club for atheists? I only learned about it a couple of months ago, some say it's just an urban myth, but I'm not so sure. Apparently, it's an highly secretive SF members club that was formed a few years ago by a group of insincere pretentious cretins who only allow like minded insincere preciousness cretins to join. They recruit new members by searching hundreds of threads looking out for anyone who thrives on posting self gratifying insincere pretentious bullcrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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