Chris_Sleeps Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Would you encourage your young son, if you had one, and he wanted to, to play with dolls, bearing in mind how this would be viewed by his friends at school? Sure. If that is his choice then I would respect that. Easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Sidney Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Sure. If that is his choice then I would respect that. Easily. But do you think this minor pass time and the joy he got from it would be of benefit, knowing all the misery at school he would get as a result? I know he should be allowed to do what he wants, but in reality, he can't, and to encourage a unimportant passtime, which will ensure he suffers a great deal, is surely the wrong decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffragette1 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 It is impossible to raise a child in a gender-neutral way, unless you live in a hermetically sealed environment. They would have to be home schooled, mix only with other kids being raised as gender neutral and not exposed to any media. I'm not sure that I approve of using this (or any) child as some kind of social experiment. Most children, from the point at which they are able to differentiate between the sexes, identify themselves with their sex. I tried with both of my children not to go down the gender specific toy and clothes route, so they both played with toys associated with both sexes up until school (as well as dressed up in both boys' and hirls' dressing up clothes). However, all around us, clothes are gender-specific, even from birth (it was virtually impossible to buy babyclothes that were gender neutral), TV programmes post the pre-school age, are aimed very much a specific audiences and it is here that the divergence really starts to set in. I originally did not allow any toy guns, soldiers etc in our house, that soon fell by the wayside as the kids (my son in particular) seemed to acquire stuff from his friends and was bought this kind of stuff for birthdays and Christmas. I also drew the line at Barbie, but they seemed to appear by stealth in a similar fashion. When my daughter showed an interest in doing ballet, I asked my son if he wanted to do it too. At the age of 6, he pooed pooed the idea, totally uninfluenced by me or his dad as we never treated either of them differently on the basis of their sex. I now have an alpha-male and alpha-female. The biggest pressures come from school and the media in this respect and to a large extent, personality plays a role in shaping a defining one's gender. I think that it's a highly complex interaction of nature and nurture. I used to believe that gender was predominantly a social construct, however, after having my own children and one of each, I no longer believe this to be case. It's not as simplistic and as reductionist as some of the theorists like to make out nor is it just a matter of socialistion as the rad fems believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 But do you think this minor pass time and the joy he got from it would be of benefit, knowing all the misery at school he would get as a result? School is miserable anyway. If he gets joy out of something then I'm not going to be the one to take it away. There will always be bullies. He'll have to learn how to deal with them himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMoran Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I don't see why that conclusion should be so easy to come to. I do...................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMoran Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 as the article says- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2090169/Sasha-Laxton-Gender-neutral-childs-reaction-mothers-questions-sex.html if they were forcing it on Sasha, then, i would oppose it. Just as I oppose those who force their gender strereotypes on their children, e.g. having a problem if their little boy likes pink. Ahhhh, so the parents have said they werent forcing it so you believe them? Just like that?? Ah well, never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Sidney Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 School is miserable anyway. If he gets joy out of something then I'm not going to be the one to take it away. There will always be bullies. He'll have to learn how to deal with them himself. I was quite happy at school. Its not always miserable. But you are taking something away. His ability to have something in common with other boys, ie boys don't play with dolls...And if they do, school will be difficult... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffragette1 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Sure. If that is his choice then I would respect that. Easily. My son played with dolls (of the baby variety, not Babrbie etc or even Action man) and used to take 'Lucy' to nursery and had a toy buggy and associated accessories. This all stopped as soon as he went to school, it was as if someone had flipped a light switch. One of the nursery staff made a comment to me about his doll and I did tell her not to draw any attention to it as I didn't want him ending up with a complex and/or bowing to social pressures. It's other people's reactions that give rise to a culture where kids gravitate towards gender specific dolls, including other parents. I ad a go at a friend once who told my son off, aged 3, not to cry 'as boys don't cry'! It's that kind of rubbish that shapes gender-appropriate behaviour, although I do believe, as per my earlier post, that there are some innate differences between the sexes, some of which will be down to hormones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 His ability to have something in common with other boys, ie boys don't play with dolls... Then that will influence his decision. Just because my hypothetical child does play with dolls doesn't mean he would sit alone and play Barbie while everyone else had a game of football. I think children are hugely conformist, more so than any adult. It's awful to stand out as a child, and that will influence him. It's not my job to take away something he enjoys before he is ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMoran Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 My son played with dolls (of the baby variety, not Babrbie etc or even Action man) and used to take 'Lucy' to nursery and had a toy buggy and associated accessories. This all stopped as soon as he went to school, it was as if someone had flipped a light switch. One of the nursery staff made a comment to me about his doll and I did tell her not to draw any attention to it as I didn't want him ending up with a complex and/or bowing to social pressures. It's other people's reactions that give rise to a culture where kids gravitate towards gender specific dolls, including other parents. I ad a go at a friend once who told my son off, aged 3, not to cry 'as boys don't cry'! It's that kind of rubbish that shapes gender-appropriate behaviour, although I do believe, as per my earlier post, that there are some innate differences between the sexes, some of which will be down to hormones. I think you could have been too harsh on your friend. Thats the kind of thing lots of people say, its just to comfort rather than trying to ram him into a pigeon hole. Ive said it to my kids. Both are well adjusted young people with their own personalities and both are happy to play with boys and girls toys but if my little girl does something unlady like im the first one to tell her "ladies dont behave that way" and if my son does something ungentlemanly ill tell him a real gentleman would do that, It works, it helps and its harmless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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