Chris_Sleeps Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The argument isn't about what should be acceptable, but what is considered acceptable. To put a boy forward to change others perceptions is unfair on him. Why do you retreat from this position on a boy learning dance? It is equally as true. If a boy learns ballet he'll probably face bullying. If a boy is cleverer than his classmates he'll probably face bullying. If a boy is thicker than his classmates he'll probably face bullying. The point for me is that a bully shouldn't push a child off something he enjoys. If a boy enjoys playing with dolls then that is something he'll have to learn aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Sidney Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Why do you retreat from this position on a boy learning dance? It is equally as true. If a boy learns ballet he'll probably face bullying. If a boy is cleverer than his classmates he'll probably face bullying. If a boy is thicker than his classmates he'll probably face bullying. The point for me is that a bully shouldn't push a child off something he enjoys. If a boy enjoys playing with dolls then that is something he'll have to learn aswell. Dancing is different. A boy who can perform ballet can probably perform other dance types as well, which is pretty cool thing to be able to do. A boy with a doll will be seen, by society in general, as plain odd, a little weird and will not fit in. You could push the child to play with dolls if you want to but in my opinion the negatives will far outway the positives. Incidentally, I'm not talking about toddlers, but more school age children. Would you really encourage an 11 year old boy to take a doll to school for the first time and not have any doubts? In regards to the other points about being clever or thick. Children in this situation will not be bullied in the same way. They will, at least, have similar children with the same issue and will receive support from adults to combat this. Whereas a boy with a doll, will not. I'm not saying this is right, but its a fact. Being thick or intelligent are also unchangable, whereas a doll can be thrown in a bin. Not all boys grow up in a home with intelligent well adjusted people and in a neighbourhood with similar people. Many grow up on rough estates where a boy with a doll will be slaughtered. I'm just interested in the welfare of the child and not some trendy debate on gender. Most boys have fond memories of their childhood toys. Indeed many save them. Imagine taking a new girlfriend home at the age of 18 and introducing her to a roomful of dolls, with frilly dresses and associated prams, brushes and bottles. The girl, in most instances, first thought will be, "ok we'll remain friends." I feel the debate is complicated more than it should be. A boy would not select a doll as a toy because he has some desire for equality. He'll do it because he likes the look or feel of it. It could quite as easily be a festering dog turd. But this innocent choice, of the doll, and not the turd, will be jumped on by the equality police, as a statement the the boy has a caring side. They will then encourage this, to the child's detriment, to support their own deluded nonesense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Dancing is different. [...] A boy with a doll will be seen, by society in general, as plain odd, a little weird and will not fit in. I'm just wondering why you use different conclusions. Boy is bullied because of dancing = don't let them push you around. Boy is bullied because of his choice of toy = put the damn thing down, you fool. There isn't exactly a contradiction, but it's interesting that you do see some things that should be beyond the influence of bullies. Would you really encourage an 11 year old boy to take a doll to school for the first time and not have any doubts? To give an honest answer, I wouldn't encourage it. Equally, I wouldn't discourage it. To be even more annoying, at 11 I presume he'll know what other kids can be like and be wise enough to make his own choices. Imagine taking a new girlfriend home at the age of 18 and introducing her to a roomful of dolls. Imagine taking a girlfriend home at 18 and still having Spiderman toys and Subuteo laying around. That argument is irrelevant - if, as an adult, you've got a bedroom full of toys then it's a bit odd whatever they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Sidney Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 My suggestion to the men who are speaking out in support of boys with dolls is to form a kind of "Slutwalk" march. Thereby, the likes of Chris, Halibut, Donkey, Onewheeldave etc can arrange to march through city centres pushing prams with dolls in. You can even form your own Facebook group. The balls in your court guys....:suspect: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMoran Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 My suggestion to the men who are speaking out in support of boys with dolls is to form a kind of "Slutwalk" march. Thereby, the likes of Chris, Halibut, Donkey, Onewheeldave etc can arrange to march through city centres pushing prams with dolls in. You can even form your own Facebook group. The balls in your court guys....:suspect: Looks like they are one step ahead of you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 My suggestion to the men who are speaking out in support of boys with dolls is to form a kind of "Slutwalk" march. You just can't lego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 .... Not all boys grow up in a home with intelligent well adjusted people and in a neighbourhood with similar people. Many grow up on rough estates where a boy with a doll will be slaughtered. I'm just interested in the welfare of the child and not some trendy debate on gender. ... And what if your boy turned out to be gay? He'd also have a rough time on the estate wouldn't he? Would you spend much time trying to convince him he's heterosexual 'for his own good'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Sidney Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Looks like they are one step ahead of you Because I'm a kind person, always willing to help, I've had some t-shirts printed for the doll men on here. ie, chris, donkey, halibut, onewheelonhiswagon and rontheredkneck. There's no shame in liking dolls guys, I'll make that clear.. I've gone with the logo, "Dolls4Trolls" Pretty catchy don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Sidney Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 And what if your boy turned out to be gay? He'd also have a rough time on the estate wouldn't he? Would you spend much time trying to convince him he's heterosexual 'for his own good'? If he was gay I personally wouldn't care one little bit. It would be of no matter to me whatsoever... However, if he said he wanted to dress in drag and mince through a council estate at night I'd advise him otherwise, because it wouldn't be any good for him, he'd probably get beaten up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 However, if he said he wanted to dress in drag and mince through a council estate at night I'd advise him otherwise, because it wouldn't be any good for him, he'd probably get beaten up... People get beat up purely for being gay, or for being straight but camp. Would you advise them to stop doing what they're doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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