MrSmith Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 There is so much wrong with that It is hard to know where to start. >The UK economic crisis is not caused by personal debts and mortgage defaults in the UK. The profit from interest on the vast majority of personal loans in this country - which are being paid back - far outstrips losses on the very small proprortion of defaults. >The crisis comes mostly from swindling bankers - with direct connections to past and present US administrations - taking on bad debts and selling them 'hidden' in packages to other banks across the globe. That is not to say bankers in other parts of the world did not also make vast profits from similar fraudulent activities. >Even if defaults on UK personal debt was the root of the problem, of course the professionals whose job it is to assess the risks on lending money would be responsiible if they lent billions to people who obviously couldn't afford to pay it back. >The icing on the cake is that banks didn't even have the money they lent out. At maximum leverage, I believe they were lending out seven times the money they actually had depoited in savings. Bailing the banks out is nothing less than paying them back money which they never owned in the first place. Nice work if you can get it..and if you don't mind living parasitically off the labours of other people. >The people at the heart of the credit crunch came out of it in a better position than before they caused it and are continuing to increment their wealth, while the majority see their standard of living eroded as a direct consequence. Ever since the credit crunch kicked in, these swindlers have mounted a massive propaganda campaign (in the US the financial services industry has 10 lobbyists for every elected politician) to place the blame elswhere. I think it was Gobbels who said something along the lines of: the bigger the lie, the easier it is to pass it off on the public. Whoever said it, our financial overlords certainly took the lesson on board. The porkies they have been spinning have been taken up by others working in finance who are seeking to distance themselves from any involvement in the credit crunch, and by right wing ideologues who are still in denial that the sacred cow they mistakenly call 'free market' economics ('monopoly market' would be more apropriate) is a deeply flawed and corrupted system. What you are repeating here is just a variation on the crude propaganda designed to bamboozle the economically illiterate. An invention of spin doctors designed to exonerate their con artist employers of all responsibility for the hardship and misery they are continuing to cause for billions of people across the globe. My post is about the global economy of which the UK is part, the clue was the fact I mentioned problems of the world. You either answered the wrong post or you didn't read my post before you answered it; there is nothing wrong with it. You are right about people in the UK not defaulting massively on their debt but it was that debt that allowed them to spend and it was that spending that gave the impression our economy was doing well. Now they can’t afford to borrow so they can’t spend and if they can’t spend the economy is bound to shrink. There wasn’t a miracle economy under labour, it was just a false economy fuelled by debt, debt the banks lent and the government allowed and now its time to pay it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 My post is about the global economy of which the UK is part, the clue was the fact I mentioned problems of the world. You either answered the wrong post or you didn't read my post before you answered it; there is nothing wrong with it. You are right about people in the UK not defaulting massively on their debt but it was that debt that allowed them to spend and it was that spending that gave the impression our economy was doing well. Now they can’t afford to borrow so they can’t spend and if they can’t spend the economy is bound to shrink. There wasn’t a miracle economy under labour, it was just a false economy fuelled by debt, debt the banks lent and the government allowed and now its time to pay it back. The thing is MrSmith all western economies are driven by debt. Find me one where 1. The government is not in debt. 2. Consumers are not in debt. 3. Banks are not destabilised by the crisis. Quite simply you will not find one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I agree it's ridiculous and I'm not defending it. We need big stimulus spend done properly on things that will provide proven ongoing benefit. OK so we stimulate the economy with more debt which we have been doing for the past ten years, we employ lots of people and build all this new infrastructure. Then what do we do when we have built it and we no longer need to employ the people building it. Do we go through an even bigger downturn or do we just stimulate the economy again by building even more stuff and going into more debt, and when we have finished do we go through an even bigger downturn caused by even greater debt, or do we just borrow more and build more stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purdy Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Suppose we could ask Ed 'sorry seems to be the hardest word' Balls and Liam Byrne where all the money went under Labours astute financial stewardship? Thats easy. Employing folk in no existent public sector jobs to artificially get unemplyment figures down. Inceasing student numbers to artificially get unemplyment figures down. And generally squandering the rest on Quangos, Nimrod and NHS comunication systems that didn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 The thing is MrSmith all western economies are driven by debt. Find me one where 1. The government is not in debt. 2. Consumers are not in debt. 3. Banks are not destabilised by the crisis. Quite simply you will not find one You are correct but the debt have to be sustainable, and the boom bust cycle can't be broken by providing more debt, a bust must follow a boom but unfortunately we tried to beat the bust by stimulating the economy with cheap credit which worked for a while. We can’t just keep stimulating the world’s economies with debt, because sooner or later the debt needs paying back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 You are correct but the debt have to be sustainable, and the boom bust cycle can't be broken by providing more debt, a bust must follow a boom but unfortunately we tried to beat the bust by stimulating the economy with cheap credit which worked for a while. We can’t just keep stimulating the world’s economies with debt, because sooner or later the debt needs paying back. The UK debt was manageable under Labour as economists pointed out time and time again. It's the same old tory mantra, "Let's cut something!" Fortunately for the tories the global recession has given them an excuse, however weak, to go ahead and kill everything and everyone (I know). If they can apportion blame of the global recession or anything at all, no matter how desperate, on Labour, they will do and try to secure their own voters and those waverers which swing elections. Disasterous Dave is going to try and bribe people with tax cuts, which sounds like the government is going to have less income and all this inspite to the fact they are trying to get the debt down as they see fit. They will have to get the money from somewhere. The waffle the Dynamic Duo splutter just doesn't make any kind of sense at all. If they had won the election people would be getting what they asked for, the fact they didn't and seized power makes it all the worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkey Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 My post is about the global economy of which the UK is part, the clue was the fact I mentioned problems of the world. You either answered the wrong post or you didn't read my post before you answered it; there is nothing wrong with it. You are right about people in the UK not defaulting massively on their debt but it was that debt that allowed them to spend and it was that spending that gave the impression our economy was doing well. Now they can’t afford to borrow so they can’t spend and if they can’t spend the economy is bound to shrink. There wasn’t a miracle economy under labour, it was just a false economy fuelled by debt, debt the banks lent and the government allowed and now its time to pay it back. Your earlier post quite clearly states that you believe banks are wrongly blamed for the economic situation..... Banks created a feel good factor by lending money to almost anyone and now the banks can’t lend this easy credit they are being blamed for all the problems of the world .......and that you also believe that people who took on too much personal debt are equally responsible for the global recession the problems were caused by people wanting something now that they couldn’t afford, the banks helped them achieve this unsustainable life style which is now over. The borrowers are just as much to blame as the lenders There is no factual basis for this view. I stand by my earlier reply, which was totally relevant to your post, which I had read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Your earlier post quite clearly states that you believe banks are wrongly blamed for the economic situation..... .......and that you also believe that people who took on too much personal debt are equally responsible for the global recession There is no factual basis for this view. I stand by my earlier reply, which was totally relevant to your post, which I had read. You will find if you read again that I said the fault lies with the borrowers who took on too much debt, the banks that lent this money and the governments that allowed it and in some cases encouraged it. You will also note that I said without this debt the economy wouldn’t have looked quite as rosy, so whilst you blame the banks for the problems we are now in please remember it was the debt they supplied that made everything appear rosy in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 The UK debt was manageable under Labour as economists pointed out time and time again. It was whilst ever the population continued to borrow money to stimulate the economy and house prices continued to rise, Gordon encourage this stimulation because without it he knew or should have known that we would be in the preverbal. He was being warned for years about the growing personal debts of the nation and that these debts were unsustainable, but he couldn’t discourage the debts because his entire economic policies were based on it. Remember he wanted a continual boom and thought he could put of the bust forever. He turned out to be wrong whist many many people turned out to be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 The truth is, when disasterous Dave was in opposition and looking at introducing 20% VAT (VAT man) and other economic policies, the economists kept telling him he was wrong and now 2-3 years down the line he's only just beginning to see that for himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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