Cyclone Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 car drivers have already shown their competence at driving on the roads, what tests do cyclists have to pass before being allowed to ride on the roads? The driving test demonstrates a very low level of competence, and quite a lot of drivers appear to have fallen below that level since passing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perplexed Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 car drivers have already shown their competence at driving on the roads, what tests do cyclists have to pass before being allowed to ride on the roads? That would hold water if the annual figures for deaths on the road were 0. A number of these will be caused by mechanical failure, but I suggest this would be tiny. Some of those killed or injured may not be drivers, and have happened through circumstances beyond the drivers control. But in the vehicle to vehicle scenario, the numbers are still large. My point is that cyclists by and large don't really do that much harm in the scheme of things. But the figures for annual deaths aren't 0 are they? Without checking, I believe they are about 4,000 approximatley. If drivers were all fully competent, there would be no threads whinging about speeding fines would there? If drivers were all fully competent, you would never see anyone on a hand held mobile would you? You aren't trying to tell me that you never see drivers speeding and on the phone are you? If all drivers were fully competent you'd never see them going through red lights would you? If drivers were all fully competent, then there would be nobody with any points on their licence would there? If all drivers were all fully competent, Police, Camera, Action wouldn't exist... If drivers were all fully competent, they wouldn't start threads with inaccurate concepts, but state them as facts anyway. If drivers were all fully competent, wouldn't all our insurance policies be very cheap? Cyclists are not required to take a test, because they are entitled, just like pedestrians and horses, to use the public highway. Insurance companies are not known for their altruism. They are hard headed businesses. They assess the risk, gamble if you like, of insuring the public in various aspects... Insurance companies know full well that the reality is that cyclists are low risk. This is why I can get free legal representation, a nice glossy bike magazine 4 times a year, discounts on kit, access to free events, a weekly newsletter, and best of all, £10,000,000 a year liability insurance. This costs me £3 a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 That would hold water if the annual figures for deaths on the road were 0. Or a very tiny number, to allow for those caused by catastrophic mechanical failure. But the figures for annual deaths aren't 0 are they? Without checking, I believe they are about 4,000 approximatley. . So all annual deaths are the driver's fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perplexed Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 So all annual deaths are the driver's fault? No. I said a number will be due to mechanic failure. There will also be a number due to others wandering in the road whilst intoxicated, or other scenarios. I totally accept that. I meant to emphasise vehicle to vehicle collisions (that vehicle being whatever). However, I agree that my post does not make this clear, so I'll edit accordingly, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 So all annual deaths are the driver's fault? What percentage of deaths do you think are the drivers fault? And for fun, what percentage of deaths do you think are cyclists fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 What percentage of deaths do you think are the drivers fault? And for fun, what percentage of deaths do you think are cyclists fault? No idea ..I was asking Perplexed whether he thought all deaths were driver error..that's how his post came across.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferno Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 ROSPA: 95% of RTCs involve driver error: http://www.churchill.com/motor/advanced-driving-test.htm Sadly, driver error remains the most common cause of road accidents. Speeding Around 430 people a year are killed in crashes in which someone exceeds the speed limit or drives too fast for the conditions. Drink Driving Around 250 people die a year in crashes in which someone was over the legal drink drive limit. Seat Belt Wearing Around 300 lives each year could be saved if everyone always wore their seat belt. Careless Driving More than 300 deaths a year involve someone being "careless, reckless or in a hurry", and a further 125 involve "aggressive driving". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perplexed Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 No idea ..I was asking Perplexed whether he thought all deaths were driver error..that's how his post came across.. I've altered it now, to hopefully make it clearer, as I didn't make it so in my first go! My general point was to counter Wex's assertion that passing test infers competence, which can be fairly easily countered by just looking around when he's out and about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferno Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 In incidents where a vehicle comes into collison with a bicycle, the driver is almost invariably at fault: http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/15/cycling-bike-accidents-study Trust me , cyclists don't want to collide with anything because it flipping hurts and the consequences can be far more serious than a scratched bumper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I've altered it now, to hopefully make it clearer, as I didn't make it so in my first go! My general point was to counter Wex's assertion that passing test infers competence, which can be fairly easily countered by just looking around when he's out and about. I suppose you need to take into account the number of miles travelled etc...how many accidents are avoided by good driving? I averted 2 yesterday..the first was a young lady was so engrossed on her mobile phone that she didn't bother looking when she stepped out into the road about 2 yards in front of me..luckily I'd seen her in plenty of time and had stopped before she walked out..another was a cyclist (honest) who was on the pavement..he swerved to avoid a pedestrain and fell off the kerb sideways into the road..again I'd seen it in plenty of time and was able to avoid hitting him..would either of these two have been attributable to me,as the driver, had it gone the other way do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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