Rupert_Baehr Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 ...Plus, Graduates are too good looking to stack shelves. I'm a good example of this point. Some are. I've encountered one or two I wouldn't trust to stock a dairy cabinet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krispon_TM Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I have just watched the BBC News where they highlighted the ridiculous situation regarding vocational GCSEs at schools. Some of these courses give the equivalent of 5 GCSEs to anyone taking part. It is little wonder that some folk arrive at university armed with a dozen GCSEs and no academic ability. It appears that nail technology (ie painting finger nails) gives a pupil 2 GCSEs on its own. The system has become a joke. Riannon, I agree it's nuts. I think the problem lies in the fact that we have to quantify everything in education, i.e. this many students do so well in such and such a subject. It's become the norm now that this carries in to the workplace and that pay-scales are based around formal qualifications, with perhaps sub-grades (i.e. employers discretion) to allow for the relevant experience of the employee. The 'job for life' concept is gone - in that model you could expect that your employer would have a good idea of your skills and your performance over any given year - that in turn leads to relevant conversations at review time. Nowadays, the pay-scales are based on paper qualifications and employees move around more frequently to inflate their salaries. I've worked with a lot of people who shouted loudly about their abilities and with directors who have taken them at their word, only to be digging themselves out of sticky situations shortly afterwards. It all stems from consumerism - we see potential employees marketing / branding themselves as commodities rather than as people who we can trust and potentially build a business with - I would want employees to feel that they contribute and share in rewards, rather than just 'work for' me. As with most things in life, you reap what you sow; we've sown a consumer culture and we're now faced with the harvest. I personally think there's a yearning to be able to take people at their word, but trust has dissolved and at least a certificate means someone vouches for that person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 This is a good point, my son is a self taught accountant, and he passed all the relevant exams whilst working. The work he did for his studies bore no resemblance to the work he does as an accountant, he says that when a graduate starts work they are shocked that what have been taught for their degree is useless for the workplace. Didn't think you could work as an accountant without passing an exam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Didn't think you could work as an accountant without passing an exam? His boss doesn’t have any qualification; she has just been working in accounts for about 30 years and is the management accountant. He started working in a call centre whilst doing his AAT, then moved to pay roll for a couple of years, when he was studding for his CEMA he had a job as an assistant accountant, now he’s a qualified accountant. But the qualification is nothing compared to experience which is what every employer he has worked for wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pottedplant Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Err, no. Still here, chuckling at the way most people have only read part of my post and failed to grasp the point. I did ask you what the point was - see here (post 17): Not sure I understand this post. The number of applicants may be down but that will not presumably reduce the number of places ergo the number of students ergo the number of graduates. Therefore no reduction in number of smart arses applying for your jobs.....unless I have missed something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 His boss doesn’t have any qualification; she has just been working in accounts for about 30 years and is the management accountant. He started working in a call centre whilst doing his AAT, then moved to pay roll for a couple of years, when he was studding for his CEMA he had a job as an assistant accountant, now he’s a qualified accountant. But the qualification is nothing compared to experience which is what every employer he has worked for wants. That's the case for most things. I use nothing on a day to day basis from my computer science degree, my OH uses nothing from her MEng. The degree's though prove an aptitude in the area and the ability to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchresearch Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Don't be so sure, a friend’s son went the Sheffield uni without A levels, he failed as you would expect and left with debts that he will never pay back. I never had A levels, the uni thought my career experience was more than enough. You do need good GCSEs in Maths and English though. Saying that, the uni had to run special classes to help the younger students brush up on basic Maths and English. To say they'd come out of school just two years earlier with A's and B's you wouldn't think it when they couldn't do simple mental arithmetic or any basic grammar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Foundation courses. They could have come out of school without a maths A level and be needing A level maths abilities. Different rules apply to mature students though, no school leaver is going to have sufficient experience to replace the required A levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert_Baehr Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 They could also have come out of school with Maths 'A' level and needed further tuition! My son (a mature student) was required to do a foundation course in Maths and Physics. The University he is attending accepted that his Chemistry was up to scratch (Should've been; he read Biochemistry the last time he was at University.) He had left school with a reasonable ('B' - AFAIR) maths 'A' level and I thought the University was being a bit harsh. Then I saw the textbooks. The mathematics he was doing in his 'foundation' year went a long way beyond 'A' level maths - Even the separate Pure and Applied 'A' levels of 40-odd years ago. The course was a bit of a pain - an additional year on a 4-year degree - but he found it was well-worth doing. When he started the first year of the degree proper, he had no difficulties whatsoever, but those who had entered with Maths at A* were having serious difficulties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barleycorn Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 good news might get rid of some of the wasters on non degree courses and deter some of the foreign fake degree applicants, a pity they dont get rid of NVQ also (not valid qualification) Just out of interest what are 'foreign fake degree applicants'? jb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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