ferno Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 If religous sorts of whatever flavour start getting wah wah wah about people having a laugh then they need to return to what their scriptures say and turn the other cheek. You've got your religious books muddled up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mj.scuba Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 If some people think it's offensive then any sensible person would stop causing offence, otherwise you are arguing in favour of muslims jeering the coffins of servicemen killed in Afghanistan. So, if it offends Muslims, we should stop? I suppose we'd better stop educating females, stop consuming alcohol, stop consuming pork, stop dressing how we want, stop people being homosexual, stop premarital sex, stop being Christians, stop being Jews, stop being Hindus, stop being Sikh, stop being Ahmadi, stop drawing, stop writing....etc, etc, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferno Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 So, if it offends Muslims, we should stop? I suppose we'd better stop educating females, stop consuming alcohol, stop consuming pork, stop dressing how we want, stop people being homosexual, stop premarital sex, stop being Christians, stop being Jews, stop being Ahmadi, stop drawing, stop writing....etc, etc, etc. What a stupid post, ascribe the most extreme tenets to all muslims, cos they're all the same, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quisquose Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 A university is different, students have the right not to have their religion mocked. No, a University is different because it is a place where free speech is most valued, a place where ideas must be criticised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Sidney Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 This forum is full of people slagging off muslims. That's fine, they are mostly quite stupid people who have probably never met a muslim in their life. A university is different, students have the right not to have their religion mocked. Nobody has the right to not have their religion mocked, don't be silly. Stupid people who don't believe a fairy tale about a man who lives in the clouds...don't make me laugh..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mj.scuba Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 This forum is full of people slagging off muslims. That's fine, they are mostly quite stupid people who have probably never met a muslim in their life. A university is different, students have the right not to have their religion mocked. Anybody stupid enough to think that shouldn't be at University. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferno Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 No, a University is different because it is a place where free speech is most valued, a place where ideas must be criticised. Freedom of speech, as I just said, stops when offence is caused otherwise you are offering support to those nutjob muslims booing soldiers' coffins. http://www.facebook.com/pages/LSE-SU-Islamic-Society/126423207380167 No to Racism- No to Islamophobia, and Stop Anti-Semitism now! These motions as you can imagine are of upmost importance. The LSE student paper is The Beaver, they carried this article: So my argument can be summarised as follows: (1) the cartoons do not promote a critical discussion of religion and (2) just because you are allowed to do something, it doesn’t mean you should do it. Before I continue, it is important to introduce three points. Firstly, there is, and must be, a limit on what we can and can’t say (and, therefore, draw). Legislation against discrimination, antisemitism and incitement to violence are entrenched in most democracies to balance the liberty of the individual with the protection of wider society. Therefore, absolute “free speech” can’t really exist. Secondly, violent responses to “offensive” cartoons are wrong, counter-productive and, frankly, illogical. They follow the same logic of violent and extremist “pro-life” campaigners that murder doctors who perform abortions. Thirdly, “offensive” cartoons are a particularly sensitive issue for Muslims because the depiction of any prophet (including Jesus Christ) is strictly forbidden. Also, perceived attacks on Islam can easily escalate due to the contemporary geo-political situation. For example, extremists can easily manipulate the issue to reinforce their West versus Islam narrative. The use of sarcasm, ridicule and irony to highlight vices and abuses of individuals with the primary objective of constructive criticism is at the essence of satire. Neither the Danish cartoons nor the “Jesus and Mo” comic strip can really be categorised as satire. What is the critical observation behind Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad sharing a pint or sleeping together? What’s the intellectual and witty suggestion behind a picture of the Prophet with a bomb on his turban? The latter example is clearly Islamophobic and promotes the prejudice that all Muslims are terrorists. It is simply reducing a religion or people to a perverse perception and then broadcasting that as legitimate criticism. http://thebeaveronline.co.uk/2012/01/24/cartoons-and-civil-responsibility/ Can anyone construct a sensible argument against that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plekhanov Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 If some people think it's offensive then any sensible person would stop causing offence, otherwise you are arguing in favour of muslims jeering the coffins of servicemen killed in Afghanistan. Because posting innocuous images on your facebook group that people have to make a deliberate effort to see is exactly equivalent to jeering a coffins in the street Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferno Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Because posting innocuous images on your facebook group that people have to make a deliberate effort to see is exactly equivalent to jeering a coffins in the street Are you not aware that for Muslims the depiction of any prophet (including Jesus Christ) is strictly forbidden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plekhanov Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Freedom of speech, as I just said, stops when offence is caused otherwise you are offering support to those nutjob muslims booing soldiers' coffins. http://www.facebook.com/pages/LSE-SU-Islamic-Society/126423207380167 No to Racism- No to Islamophobia, and Stop Anti-Semitism now! These motions as you can imagine are of upmost importance. The LSE student paper is The Beaver, they carried this article: So my argument can be summarised as follows: (1) the cartoons do not promote a critical discussion of religion and (2) just because you are allowed to do something, it doesn’t mean you should do it. Before I continue, it is important to introduce three points. Firstly, there is, and must be, a limit on what we can and can’t say (and, therefore, draw). Legislation against discrimination, antisemitism and incitement to violence are entrenched in most democracies to balance the liberty of the individual with the protection of wider society. Therefore, absolute “free speech” can’t really exist. Secondly, violent responses to “offensive” cartoons are wrong, counter-productive and, frankly, illogical. They follow the same logic of violent and extremist “pro-life” campaigners that murder doctors who perform abortions. Thirdly, “offensive” cartoons are a particularly sensitive issue for Muslims because the depiction of any prophet (including Jesus Christ) is strictly forbidden. Also, perceived attacks on Islam can easily escalate due to the contemporary geo-political situation. For example, extremists can easily manipulate the issue to reinforce their West versus Islam narrative. The use of sarcasm, ridicule and irony to highlight vices and abuses of individuals with the primary objective of constructive criticism is at the essence of satire. Neither the Danish cartoons nor the “Jesus and Mo” comic strip can really be categorised as satire. What is the critical observation behind Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad sharing a pint or sleeping together? What’s the intellectual and witty suggestion behind a picture of the Prophet with a bomb on his turban? The latter example is clearly Islamophobic and promotes the prejudice that all Muslims are terrorists. It is simply reducing a religion or people to a perverse perception and then broadcasting that as legitimate criticism. http://thebeaveronline.co.uk/2012/01/24/cartoons-and-civil-responsibility/ Can anyone construct a sensible argument against that? John Stewart Mill constructed an argument against such fascistic nonsense well over 100 years ago. Its sad that so many people seem sadly ignorant of why freedom of expression is an essential right that mere offence should not be able to violate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.