chrishall Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Several years ago I recall the big four supermarkets denying any sort of dealers ring operating between them and that they were competing with each other fairly but that didn't explain why new prices on some items increaed at the same rate simultaneously in different stores. Some cynics might suggest that oil companies are not really competing but reading from the same hymn sheet, i.e. oilmen working together to project an image of competitive trading to secure their world position of power. Personally I rarely take things at face value and reading etween the lines question what I am told. But then maybe I'm just an old cynic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sibon Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Plenty of car manufacturers are making "water" powered cars. Honda, Mercedes and Hyundai are leading the race. Hyundai will have one in limited production this year and on more general sale by 2015. Link here to an article about Hyundai's offering. The only issue is the extraction of hydrogen from water. Cars that run on water and sunshine, what a wonderful world:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Showing your age a bit there. Iceland has the big advantage of geothermal energy... and also a population that is prepared to stand up to their government. I think that is a whole different idea: the water injection improves the efficiency of the infernal combustion engine. It still runs on petrol. true but steam is water so it could be called a water and petrol engine,case in point 45 in Germany no petrol of any kind many cars ran on steam only making it a water engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairyloon Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 true but steam is water so it could be called a water and petrol engine, Could do, but it is not burning the water. It would make more sense to call it a petrol and hot air engine. case in point 45 in Germany no petrol of any kind many cars ran on steam only No they didn't. They ran cars on all manner of things including wood and coal, but not on water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
911wasalie Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Producing hydrogen is very simple, it's called electrolysis. You simply pass an electric current through water between two electrodes and bubbles appear. They are hydrogen and oxygen . I can produce the D.C. power from solar panels so although the gas is not free it's a lot cheaper than petrol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medusa Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Producing hydrogen is very simple, it's called electrolysis. You simply pass an electric current through water between two electrodes and bubbles appear. They are hydrogen and oxygen . I can produce the D.C. power from solar panels so although the gas is not free it's a lot cheaper than petrol. Producing a mix of hydrogen and oxygen is really simple, but how do you separate those gases and store them in a way that you can then use them in an ongoing way to power the vehicle? If you have a mix of gases then water is such a stable molecule that as soon as you compress them or try to store them then they will react together and go straight back to being water unless they are separated and kept in separate tanks. You actually don't need to keep the oxygen in tanks though- you can just let that go into the atmosphere because there's enough oxygen in the atmosphere for the reaction you need with the hydrogen. But you can't store the hydrogen in the presence of the oxygen or you won't have fuel, you'll be back to square one with water again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medusa Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 true but steam is water so it could be called a water and petrol engine,case in point 45 in Germany no petrol of any kind many cars ran on steam only making it a water engine And what produces your steam? Whatever produces your steam is a fuel too, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sibon Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Producing a mix of hydrogen and oxygen is really simple, but how do you separate those gases and store them in a way that you can then use them in an ongoing way to power the vehicle? If you have a mix of gases then water is such a stable molecule that as soon as you compress them or try to store them then they will react together and go straight back to being water unless they are separated and kept in separate tanks. . You can separate the gases at the production stage. There are plenty of designs of electrolytic cells that will do just that. The real problem is in generating enough electricity to make enough hydrogen to fuel our energy hungry lifestyles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
911wasalie Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Producing a mix of hydrogen and oxygen is really simple, but how do you separate those gases and store them in a way that you can then use them in an ongoing way to power the vehicle? If you have a mix of gases then water is such a stable molecule that as soon as you compress them or try to store them then they will react together and go straight back to being water unless they are separated and kept in separate tanks. You actually don't need to keep the oxygen in tanks though- you can just let that go into the atmosphere because there's enough oxygen in the atmosphere for the reaction you need with the hydrogen. But you can't store the hydrogen in the presence of the oxygen or you won't have fuel, you'll be back to square one with water again. The hydrogen bubbles are larger than the oxygen so perhaps a simple filter will do the trick, another way would possibly be by container design which forces the bubbles into seperate areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairyloon Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 The hydrogen bubbles are larger than the oxygen so perhaps a simple filter will do the trick, another way would possibly be by container design which forces the bubbles into seperate areas. Or you could just collect the oxygen from the positive electrode, and hydrogen from the negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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