ampersand Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I think it is sometimes difficult to draw definitive conclusions from a programme like this as you can never be sure of how it was edited - I think the father came across very badly, and I'm not making excuses for him by saying I suspect his lack of care as a father was more down to him just simply not being capable, rather than any deliberate neglect - it was clear when he was being observed by the Court appointed guardian that he just didn't have a clue how to interact with his son But I agree with Olive's post - it was a very sad situation and the mother, having done her best, deserves full credit for accepting what was probably going to be an inevitable outcome - I hope she (and her son) have a better life in the future than they have had so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laineyiow Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 This couple were vulnerable. It's the ones who know the system and how to flaunt it who are the real danger to children. This couple were the easy targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Macbeth Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I watched this today with my husband and we have talked about it. One issue he feels strongly about is that young graduates (like the young woman whose case this was) often don't have a background or any experience that prepares them for families like these. Lets face it, most of us don't live like that or witness it in our ordinary lives. The parents seemed unable to grasp that the house needed to be cleaner, the child needed a bed, and letting the dog poo and wee indoors wasn't a good idea. I hoped we'd see a bit more of the older, dark haired woman, who said she 'wouldn't leave a dog there, never mind a child'. So, although I wouldn't denigrate those who graduate with a degree in social work, I think a person with some life experience (and probably a tough background themselves) wouldn't take such a softly softly approach. The baby girl won't have a problem being adopted, sadly the little boy was probably left in a damaging situation for too long and may well be in permanent foster care, or a children's home. I suspect whatever happens both children will be better cared for than with their parents. Having said that, I felt a bit sorry for the mother. Even though knowing that there were problems with their parenting, she became pregnant again. It was never going to be a happy ending. I agree to an extent with laineyiow about offering support, but in their case I don't think the father would accept it. He didn't want to be 'told'. Perhaps some SureStart volunteers might have made a difference, but its possible the couple didn't want any 'interference'. Social services even had to buy a bed for the little boy because his parents hadn't bothered. How many families are there living like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Macbeth Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 This couple were vulnerable. It's the ones who know the system and how to flaunt it who are the real danger to children. This couple were the easy targets. They were, so perhaps the really vulnerable need some really helpful guidance and persuasion about contraception before they get into that situation. How long does an implant last? Personally I'd see that as a better solution all round. They could live their lives in the manner that suited them, with no interference, and no child would be at risk of neglect or damage. How much better would that be. I wouldn't be a children's social worker for an RBS bonus! No way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*_ash_* Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Although I agree that the SWs have a hard task looking at this programme their sole aim was getting the children off this couple and 'proving' they were failures. I don't think it looked that way at all. They asked them to tidy up, and various other things which they didn't do. I don't think anything that they were asked to do was rocket science. I didn't actually see the SS get anyone.in to sort the house out.for the couple.or to actually.help the couple with parenting. Do you mean get people to come and clean their house? I didn't actually see the SS get anyone.in to sort the house out.for the couple.or to actually.help the couple with parenting. Reminding them to remember to feed their child, or get a bed for him (after 3 years?!). Where were the parenting classes? It is far easier taking children off people than actually helping them. I would.have much rather they.have given the couple some practical help than just immediately think of putting the children in care. That's almost certainly untrue. I am convinced with the right help especially when she had got rid of the waste of space father the mother could have been taught how to care for het children but.it.is much easier to put children into care and convince the parent they are doing it.in the interest of the child. Only time will tell what harm that the child suffers through going into care. I don't think it's easier at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*_ash_* Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 This couple were vulnerable. It's the ones who know the system and how to flaunt it who are the real danger to children. This couple were the easy targets. Whether they are vulnerable or not isn't the matter. It's whether they can look after a child. This couple were vulnerable. It's the ones who know the system and how to flaunt it who are the real danger to children. This couple were the easy targets. Do you think that someone shouldn't intervene with cases like this for that reason? (based on what we saw in the film) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schong2111 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I thought the whole soft spoken and 'nicey nicey' talking to the parents was a load of b.s though, these are people who clearly couldn't grasp the basics of raising a child and from what I saw they needed to be told "This is serious, this is what you must do or your child will be taken into care" The idea I got from the documentary was that the social workers were being too soft on the family - which led to a dragged out process and their children being put up for adoption. Its easy enough for some people saying they were being too hard on the family, but they even bought the child a bed and when they went back for the next visit it was still in the packaging! Unbelievable! Its people like these that make me think parenting classes should be compulsory. Don't get me wrong though I have so much respect for social workers and their job must be so frustrating in certain cases, I just think some people need to be told the hard truth and if it comes across as harsh so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olive Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Yeah, editing is a poweful tool, we are only seeing things from the documentary maker's viewpoint. Schong2111, that's what I was thinking - the process seems to be dragged out only to end with the same conclusion. Sure, people should be given support and a chance to improve, but don't they need to be told how things are, no ifs, not buts. Are the messages that get sent out too ambiguous? I actually thought the mum might have made a go of it, given a lot of support, but the decision she made in the end looked like it was done out of love for her kids and a wish to see them have a good life, not through any selfish motives. At least she had the rationality to process this decision. I'm not sure what kind of help you could ever have given the dad in that situation, short of a massive injection of sense.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peewee84 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I watched this today with my husband and we have talked about it. One issue he feels strongly about is that young graduates (like the young woman whose case this was) often don't have a background or any experience that prepares them for families like these. Lets face it, most of us don't live like that or witness it in our ordinary lives. The parents seemed unable to grasp that the house needed to be cleaner, the child needed a bed, and letting the dog poo and wee indoors wasn't a good idea. I hoped we'd see a bit more of the older, dark haired woman, who said she 'wouldn't leave a dog there, never mind a child'. So, although I wouldn't denigrate those who graduate with a degree in social work, I think a person with some life experience (and probably a tough background themselves) wouldn't take such a softly softly approach. My sister and I grew up on the Manor in the 80's/90's and we didn't have a lot. We lived with domestic violence, and our mum had us young, 3 kids under 6 by the age of 21. But we have all made something of ourselves (and so has our mum and I think it's for this reason my sister decided to go into Social Work. She does understand and has had the life experience to deal with families such as this. Even so, she still HAS to take the softly-softly approach because they are the guidelines she has to work by. As I said before, getting irate and angry doesn't help anyone, even though they are completely normal emotions to have in these situations, and which is why I couldn't do this job because I couldn't overcome those feelings. I must admit though, it did get to me a little to watch the young "new-age", recently graduated, hippy social worker riding to work on her bike, as it's true that she has probably never wanted for anything in her life, is from a comfortable middle-class background who's university fees were paid for by her parents and the fact that she is riding her bike to work is a lifestyle choice rather than a necessity. Even so, I can't see there being a check-list to study as a social worker which goes along the lines of "Lived in poverty? CHECK. Ever been neglated physically/emotionally? CHECK"...etc etc It's the same way I think about the government and politicians, how can these people possibly make an informed decision on the lives of the working class when they have never lived a day in the life of the majority of people in the UK and have never wanted for anything? How can they possibly understand?? But the alterntive of letting people that are struck by poverty and have been "dragged up" run the country instead with no education I don't think would work either. So we just do the best we can... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich5315 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Our social workers let my partners 12 year old stay with his dad who is a sex offender, me and my patrner have done nothing wrong!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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