MrSmith Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I've avoided this for the most part for two reasons, firstly I really can't get on with the closed minded attitudes of some of the posters and secondly after reading through the thread its evident that very few have understood what I was trying to do, and why there were so many rules. However, it seems that the thread has taken a turn for the better and I would like to add my thoughts to Toms query. 1) What do you believe in. I am a human being, I think we all, even the religious, believe something slightly different based on our personal experiences. But in general I follow the teachings of Buddhism. I have some difficulty with the more 'supernatural elements', but overall it makes sense from my personal experiences. 2) Have you been put off religion. No, what I have been put off by is religious institutions and the religious extremists, but as someone rightly pointed out earlier, there are extremists on both sides of the debate. 3) Do you believe there is a God. No. I don't know but all the evidence put to me by the theists has not stood up under scrutiny. I have nothing against believers, but I object to being told there IS scientific evidence for God where there is none. 4) What do you think happens when you die. I believe, at present, that our conciousness dies and our bodies decompose. 5) Do you dislike religious people. Not at all, but I get frustrated by anyone who claims they KNOW anything 100% I KNOW with 100% certainty that all humans are human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomm06 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 That is not true, and not logical. People are entirely capable of holding contradictory positions, everyone is a hypocrite in some way. Your reasoning is akin to saying that abusive husbands aren't so bad because so many women stay with them. You can't just say 'logic dictates' this or that, you actually need to make a logical argument, you have not done so here. I'm an example. I'm studying Engineering at degree level, which includes Physics and some scientific experiments. It would be hypocritical of me to believe in God. I don't particularly believe in him, but I'm more than open to accepting the concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Rootsbooster Everything you say makes scene its your opinion that's fine,I can live with atheism no problem, its the extremists I would have a problem with like in any thing, I say live and let live,and I try to have an open mind. Can you explain to me what an "extremist atheist" would be? It conjures up images of an atheist making bomb threats, forcing everyone to acknowledge that the guy has no belief in God ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Yes, and a lot of terrible things happen because of religion - things that many of the religious overlook, ignore or are part of. I can only speak from a Christian perspective because i know little about other religions. Many church leaders do speak out against wars,injustice poverty etc and their comments are not reported in the mass-media. The Archbishop of Canterbury does get a little media coverage from time to time,but his views are dismissed by the politicians. Sometimes there are people who i have seen on tv or heard on the radio who somehow have managed to get their views heard on certain other topics in relation to religious issues, and i have been in total disagreement with them. Their comments do not always reflect the views of the vast majority of christians but they have somehow managed to set themselves up as representatives of the church, but in fact they are speaking for themselves and not speaking on behalf of all christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky3 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 ... but in fact they are speaking for themselves and not speaking on behalf of all christians. What religious leaders could claim that in truth? What leaders of countries or international organisations could for that matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 . I'd fight for people's right to a practice religion or worship a god. But if that religion was intolerant of others - or propagated hate and mistrust against those who don't believe - and sought to impose its intolerant views on society, then I couldn't possibly fight for their right to practice that religion. They will be always be some who will express intolerant views. As for the propagation of hate and mistrust for those who don't believe i have never come across that.I'm sure that is a thing of the past.I certainly hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryedo40 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I can only speak from a Christian perspective because i know little about other religions. The term Christian covers all Christians - not just your flavour of Christian. Many church leaders do speak out against wars,injustice poverty etc and their comments are not reported in the mass-media. The Archbishop of Canterbury does get a little media coverage from time to time,but his views are dismissed by the politicians. Of course they do. And sure, some politicians - even Christian ones - do dismiss what they say. Sometimes there are people who i have seen on tv or heard on the radio who somehow have managed to get their views heard on certain other topics in relation to religious issues, and i have been in total disagreement with them. Their comments do not always reflect the views of the vast majority of christians but they have somehow managed to set themselves up as representatives of the church, but in fact they are speaking for themselves and not speaking on behalf of all christians. I agree. And some are representatives of their church. As I've previously stated on another thread, Christians have no uniform concept of god or Christianity. All Christians have different views and all view scripture differently. They will be always be some who will express intolerant views. As for the propagation of hate and mistrust for those who don't believe i have never come across that.I'm sure that is a thing of the past.I certainly hope so. If you saw the links I posted earlier, you should recognise that it does exist - and not just against non-believers, but gays and people of other faiths. From my experience, the main culprits - and I don't mean all Christians who identify with these labels - seem to be evangelical Christians, Christian apologists of various denominations, creationists and the Catholic hierarchy. Of course, to some extent, spreading mistrust of others who don't identify with Christianity is unavoidable; this is because Christian scripture - just like Islamic scripture - is inherently intolerant or negative towards those who differ. And because those texts don't change, they perpetuate the mistrust of those who don't identify with these faiths. Thankfully, because religious education in the UK has steadily declined over the last century, people have become more tolerant of others. So things aren't as bad in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairDooz Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I was hoping you might actually respond to my point this time, but alas! You've chosen to pick me up on a single insignificant sentence and ignore the main content of my argument, kudos to that 'open' mind of yours! Hey FJ - Ever heard of a life outside of SF? Work, social life, voluntary work ... I haven't had time to read all this let alone formulate a response. Anyways, I have read some of the latest posts (this isn't all about me 'n' thee) and I won't even attempt a point by point response - besides not having the time I'm sure it would bore the pants off the majority. OK ... let me back track a little and re-iterate what I've said from the beginning. I'm an aetheist, but let me make a confession(?). I have perhaps been defending religion from an idealistic viewpoint. That's because I'm searching for something beyond a literal, scientific, aetheistic, cold, heartless, soulless experience of the world. I'm coming to the end of an 18 month assignment with a young person in care. Although I've had great support from the organistion I volunteered for, it's been a struggle at times to know what to do. Where is the caring community that I could introduce this person to, so that he can trust again and become a valued member of society? The last thing I'd want to do is introduce anyone to a gay bashing, science hating, dogmatic organisation preaching hellfire and damnation if you don't do what you're told. But I don't think we have too many of those in Sheffield, England, Britain. You have to go overseas for those. However, there are religious organisations in this city who do support the poor and underpriveleged, and I guess I've been trying to defend that kind of work against those who have decided that all religion of any flavour and in any context is bad and must be opposed with fervour and energy (fundamentalist rationalists) (my little joke to myself, I don't care if it's not funny). So although I'm an aetheist with a scientific background, I have more in common with those who see life as more than a rational pursuit. I have more in common with those who preach and practice caring for others. And if you know of a scientific, aetheist, humanist organisation whose doors are open this weekend that I could introduce a 14 year old lad to, who will help him when my assignment ends, then please let me know - use PM if you wish. And if you FlamingJimmy,or anyone would like to discuss this over a pint sometime, I'd be happy to do so. Again PM me if the prospect of real life is not too scary. I promise that I'm not nearly so bold or antagonistic face to face, if anything I have an excess of respect. Peace and love brothers and sisters. FairDooz to all ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 OK ... let me back track a little and re-iterate what I've said from the beginning. I'm an aetheist, but let me make a confession(?). I have perhaps been defending religion from an idealistic viewpoint. That's because I'm searching for something beyond a literal, scientific, aetheistic, cold, heartless, soulless experience of the world. What makes you think that being an atheist means you have to be literal, scientific, cold and heartless? Being an atheist simply means you don't have a belief in God(s), that's all. You can be passionate, compassionate, inspired, in awe, appreciative, kind, thoughtful, generous, creative, romantic and much more! It can even be argued that you aren't necessarily "soulless" as an atheist, this definition from the OED: "SOUL; noun 1the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal. a person’s moral or emotional nature or sense of identity: in the depths of her soul, she knew he would betray her2 [mass noun] emotional or intellectual energy or intensity, especially as revealed in a work of art or an artistic performance: their interpretation lacked soulblack American culture or ethnic pride. short for soul music." If you are having a literal, scientific, cold, heartless, soulless experience of the world, it's down to yourself, not atheism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairDooz Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 The debate started off with science vs religion, not theism vs atheism. ... but aetheism came in my list of things that combined, still leave me looking for more. I'm not blaming aetheism or aetheists for being the other things in the list. And yes, it is up to me and nobody else to find fulfilment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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