Ryedo40 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 As the point was to try and get religious people (not just theists, or 'people of the book', but all religioins) to provide evidence for any aspect of their faith (not just the belief in God) and considering at least one atheist poster has confused science with philosophy I would say your suggested title is way off the mark. However, considering it turned into the usual idiotic squabbling very early on it's all pretty much irrelevant. I hope everyone is enjoying it Sorry. I've been partly responsible for dragging the thread away from the original topic. But when people like Fairdooz move the discussion away from what was intended - and make claims that probably need addressing - I can't help but respond(even if I don't do a good job of it). Still, if the discussion hadn't drifted, we'd probably still be on the first page of the thread - and where would the fun be in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairDooz Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Of course it's a natural process. If people are hard-done by, treated badly, or feel others are being treated badly, etc, they naturally form groups and seek to change peoples minds. It's that what help to shape our values - not some Church that's lagging behind while kicking and screaming in protest of change. If you think the decision making process and mechanisms by which we come to an agreed set of values is natural then fine. In my opinion it’s a higher function of an advanced society that demands a set of [artificial] rules which we all agree to be fair. I didn’t mean to nit pick over that point, but I was agreeing that yes, values do change. I’ll not pass comment on the Church’s propensity for change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 Sorry. I've been partly responsible for dragging the thread away from the original topic. But when people like Fairdooz move the discussion away from what was intended - and make claims that probably need addressing - I can't help but respond(even if I don't do a good job of it). Still, if the discussion hadn't drifted, we'd probably still be on the first page of the thread - and where would the fun be in that? No need for apologies, it has become what it has become. Twists and turns are what makes life what it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairDooz Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 But when people like Fairdooz move the discussion away from what was intended - and make claims that probably need addressing - I can't help but respond(even if I don't do a good job of it). Please Mr PaliRichard sir, it wasn't me that took the thread away from it's original course, I wasn't even in the room when that happened Sorry, forgive me it's all my fault ahh OK (cross post with 273) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairDooz Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 PS Just putting together a new thread to focus on the Aetheism 2.0 video which expresses some of what I've been trying to communicate, but in a far better way than I've been able to ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 . Ryedo i understand more about the Secular charities now.Thanks for clarifying that. That evangelical person would probably have wound me up.I have come accross those types myself on occasions and avoided them. If they are fanatical, yet harmless..they are more to be pitied. If harmful..they need to be stopped. If i was to come accross that type of person now i would probably deal with them differently.I would pretend i was an atheist. I would know exactly what to say to them, and what questions to ask to annoy them because i've had some tuition!! I was going to reply to one of your posts yesterday afternoon sometime,but thought better of it! when i saw one of your posts to someone else.! I thought it might be better to wait until you had cooled down. It appears the thread is drawing to a close.I won't be going on the new one,the op has made it much clearer what that thread is all about. I have got one more post to reply to ..for Roots..but my broadband speed is slowing down at the moment so it will have to leave it till later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 . . . Nobody has ever given me a reason to believe any gods exist. It doesn't matter to me if there is a God or not, the only thing I ask of believers is "why do you believe?". Nobody ever answers, the closest I have got is yourself saying that you don't need a reason. Roots you have asked me that question,and so have others on the religious threads.I tried to explain in different ways,but have never managed to come up with a satisfactory answer,all i came up with was a belief of the New Testament and personal experiences in life etc....no one seemed to understand...I have now come to the conclusion that faith in God is intangible, It can never really be explained. I do hope someone comes on to this thread again,even with just one post.I feel quite bad about being the last one again,makes me feel as if my ramblings have ruined the thread. Oh but i think Fairdooz blamed the atheists...so thats allright then. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Ah my apologies, in that context I think both our titles are somewhat lacking, I think the Battle Royal thread would have suited better Blummin' drama queen Roots you have asked me that question,and so have others on the religious threads.I tried to explain in different ways,but have never managed to come up with a satisfactory answer,all i came up with was a belief of the New Testament and personal experiences in life etc....no one seemed to understand...I have now come to the conclusion that faith in God is intangible, I don't think it's a case of anyone not understanding, your "belief of the New Testament" is not the cause, it's the effect. It's the cause that I am asking for. Also what do you think of the Old Testament ? I can understand that your personal experiences are none of my business, but do you care to give one, to help me understand? It can never really be explained. This is what I don't understand, if it can't be explained then how can you believe in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
six45ive Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 ...er I did ... that's why I asked you the question ... I couldn't find any evidence for your point ... I have to admit,apart from the tax free giving (Gift Aid) neither could I... 'Nuff said.....to the tune of £200,000,000 "over £200 million is given tax-efficiently each year through Gift Aid and a further £60 million is recovered from the Inland Revenue in tax;" and a further £60,000,000 recovered by the church from the tax payer. Sort of blows your argument apart me thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryedo40 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 ]I thought it might be better to wait until you had cooled down. LOL I hadn't even warmed up. ]Oh but i think Fairdooz blamed the atheists...so thats allright then. I blame the "atheist" who can't even spell the word in the typical fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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