So the US is angry that the Russians and Chinese have used their veto..

[Tony]

Surely it's blindingly obvious that we've lost freedom as a result of American "defence" of it, not gained any.

[mapleboy]

Well, when the Assad regime falls hopefully the Syrians will remember who supported the regime.

 

That's Russia, China, Iran and Hamas.

 

Hopefully they'll also remember who didn't support the Assad regime.

 

That's the West.

 

So no chance of the religious nuts taking over and every chance a democracy will be established then?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There goes that flying pig again.

 

Gawd 'elp the poor Syrian who just wants to live his/her life without some **** telling him what to do.

 

Oh and of course it will all end up being the West's fault one way or another.

[Harleyman]

That's an interesting question - I'd be interested to know how many Americans have died defending our freedom, or theirs, since 1945.

 

Wasn't the Cold War all about stopping the spread of Communism or do you fall for that old British Labour party line..... particularly advocated by that closet Communist Harold Wilson and his cronies that the Soviet Union and China were no threat whatsoever.... just misunderstood good guys whose only interest was to further the betterment of the downtrodden proletarian worker ?

[Tony]

Wasn't the Cold War all about stopping the spread of Communism or do you fall for that old British Labour party line..... particularly advocated by that closet Communist Harold Wilson and his cronies that the Soviet Union and China were no threat whatsoever.... just misunderstood good guys whose only interest was to further the betterment of the downtrodden proletarian worker ?

 

I haven't fallen for anything, but I don know that the Cold War ended over twenty years ago. I did say that "I'd be interested to know how many Americans have died defending our freedom, or theirs, since 1945."

 

Not many I'd say. Certainly not as many as British military who have died in Northern Ireland from weapons bought for terrorists by Americans.

[Harleyman]

Surely it's blindingly obvious that we've lost freedom as a result of American "defence" of it, not gained any.

 

You're lucky the Americans were around to defend yours (and mine) in May 1945. The Red Army could just as easily have overrun not only the whole of Germany but the rest of northern Europe along with it? Who else would have stopped them if Stalin had just decided to get rid of the rest of the capitalist nations not only to destroy capitalist societies but to eliminate any future invasion of Mother Russia from the west at a later date. Stalin may have been our ally but he had a deep distrust of the west and it''s intentions.

[mj.scuba]

So no chance of the religious nuts taking over and every chance a democracy will be established then?

 

I wouldn't bank on it. As we've seen in Egypt, people wanting some real political reform and freedoms make some huge sacrafices and pay the blood price for it, only to see the Islamists make capital out of it off the back of the newly won reforms.

[Harleyman]

I haven't fallen for anything, but I don know that the Cold War ended over twenty years ago. I did say that "I'd be interested to know how many Americans have died defending our freedom, or theirs, since 1945."

 

Not many I'd say. Certainly not as many as British military who have died in Northern Ireland from weapons bought for terrorists by Americans.

 

Depends what you mean by not many. Look it up on the net. Korea and Vietnam would be a start. And dont tell me that neither of those wars was about us vs the communists.

 

How many British soldiers died in Korea? How many died in Malaya during the communist insurgenct that lasted from the end of WW2 until 1959.

 

Maybe they weren' defending your freedom either

[Tony]

Nope I'm not buying it Harleyman. This Us -v- Communists isn't washing as a defence of freedom rather than the territorial power play that it really was.

 

Let's come up to date, something more modern, on topic even.

[frank ryan]

1. We dont get our gas from Russia. We have plenty enough of our own here. Don't you even know that?

 

2. I'm assuming you live in the UK. Dont you even know what's going on in your own parliament? British Foreigh Secretary William Hague addressed the Commons yesterday. In his address he also criticized China and Russia for vetoing the UN resolution.

 

3. There are plenty of German cars on the roads here. More in quantity than in the the UK even

 

4. I think you'd better start getting up to speed on what's happening.

This isn't about the US daring to criticize Russia and China They've received widespread condemnation for their veto of the resolutiion. A resolution that was approved by just about every country in the middle east

 

1. http://www.parliament.com select commitee on energy 14th report, chap 5 - energy - projected EU dependence on russian gas - 25% (para 132)

 

2. Don't understand the point - what do you mean?

 

3. german goods (eg mercs and bmw's) are out of my price range.

 

4. the 'condemnation' is european and US - the world comdemns israel for its violence against the palestinians , but is prevented from expressing it by US vetoes.

 

5. I don't base my opinions on cxc's or yours - they are mine and they are widely shared throughout the world

[mapleboy]

You're lucky the Americans were around to defend yours (and mine) in May 1945. The Red Army could just as easily have overrun not only the whole of Germany but the rest of northern Europe along with it? Who else would have stopped them if Stalin had just decided to get rid of the rest of the capitalist nations not only to destroy capitalist societies but to eliminate any future invasion of Mother Russia from the west at a later date. Stalin may have been our ally but he had a deep distrust of the west and it''s intentions.

Sorry Harleyman, there was no chance the Sovs could have carried on and taken over Europe in '45. Militarily, yes they were indeed massive but most significantly they were a logistically weak force, with much of their supplies coming from the USA pre-VE Day. The losses they took at Berlin were horrendous. Uncle Joe gets uppity, Uncle Sam pulls the logistics plug, game over for Uncle Joe. And then there was the bomb, which the Sovs didn't get for quite a few years after '45 (= mapleboy can't be bothered to Google it ).