Anna B Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Any way, I don't want to open up the Occupy thread which has been done to death. I think our best hope, as someone has already said, probably lies with Sheffield Universities. New developments / advances are going beyond the understanding of many ordinary people so it's not surprising we can't put a name to it, but lets hope the Government put the money into it to make sure we can follow it through to the end, the application and marketing stage, which is where we generally hand it over to the Japenese or the Americans to develop 'cos we won't fund it. Trouble is it takes oodles of cash which we don't have, and these sort of high tech industries tend not to employ that many people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkey Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 In which case the fact that the NHS and other government agencies are the biggest employers here but are not elsewhere, speaks volumes. . What do you mean the biggest employers? They employ more people than everything else put together? Got any stats relating to levels of government employment in various towns? I'm not going to engage you in such a ridiculous attempt to imply that conservatives are racists. You are again dragging the debate off topic by presenting an irrelevant dichotomous argument about who votes for whom. There more racists in the south then, are there? Spectacular missing of the point there. I didn't say the conservatives were racists, I said they were doing something they know is bad for business to attract the votes of bigots. And no, OBVIOUSLY not saying there are more racists in the south either. But you have said that levels of business acumen and political savvy are split along geographical lines, so I'm suprised you now seem to be saying you are averse to geographical stereotyping in principle? I take it as a sign that people are unable to defend their arguments when they resort to such wild misinterpretations. A reliance on training foreign students is not an industry to be marveled at it's a short sighted money grab which will ultimately export more high value jobs, predominantly to Asia. I can see no long term gain from effectively selling off our intellectual property. And you think the foreign students will just give up on getting an education if we don't let them use our universities??? If we want the educated people to be here and not abroad, why is the governemnt targeting foreign graduates and making it incredibly difficult for them to stay on? They are a liability when they work here, but they are valued professionals who will greatly increase to the competitiveness of the economy when they are forced to return to their own countries? Sure, that makes real sense. No contradicition there at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 No, that is just a conclusion you have jumped to. Originally Posted by donkey The economy in Sheffield was fine before the credit crunch. The economy in Sheffield appeared fine because of the boom which you appear happy about, it wasn’t fine; it was the boom part of the boom and bust, if you want one you have to accept the other. I have been on this Forum since the boom years, and have been consistent on this issue. I predicted that the greedy rush to make money for nothing by relentlessly driving up the value of housing stock would end in a collapse which would drag the wider economy down and leave others to foot the bill for the vast unearned profits made. The only thing I didn't forsee was that the problem would start in the American property bubble. Based on this then you must accept that the economy of Sheffield and the country wasn't fine before the crash. It was all just an elution created by the policies of the government with the help of the banks and the stupidity and greed of some of the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkey Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Based on this then you must accept that the economy of Sheffield and the country wasn't fine before the crash. It was all just an elution created by the policies of the government with the help of the banks and the stupidity and greed of some of the people. This is the point I am making. Far from local ecomnomic difficulties being as a result of too many socialists in the area, as some would have us believe, it is a symptom of a wider malaise characterised by very capitalist, monetarist, conservative type policies. Maybe saying Sheffield was fine before the credit crunch was the wrong choice of words, but the point remains the same. That you cannot attribute recession to the political ideologies of local people in Sheffield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Again, Occupy have been trying to raise public awareness and demand something better, but thanks to public apathy haven't got very far. As far as I'm concerned to publicly decry Occupy (no matter how cack handed they've been) is as good as showing support for the Government system, so maybe they are stupid, but how many of these people will bother to investigate the system for themselves?. You can oppose the occupy without supporting the government, or just decide that the bad government is better than the alternative. What’s that saying? Better the devil you know. I can see no reason why I would be better off by supporting occupy, all I see is some people will be worse off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 This is the point I am making. Far from local ecomnomic difficulties being as a result of too many socialists in the area, as some would have us believe, it is a symptom of a wider malaise characterised by very capitalist, monetarist, conservative type policies. Maybe saying Sheffield was fine before the credit crunch was the wrong choice of words, but the point remains the same. That you cannot attribute recession to the political ideologies of local people in Sheffield. Neither can you attribute growth to the political ideologies of local people in Sheffield, the people of Sheffield benefited from the boom and they like everyone else have to suffer the consequences of the inevitable bust, I suppose they could have pressured their political party of choice into not allowing the boom in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkey Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Neither can you attribute growth to the political ideologies of local people in Sheffield, the people of Sheffield benefited from the boom and they like everyone else have to suffer the consequences of the inevitable bust, I suppose they could have pressured their political party of choice into not allowing the boom in the first place. That is a completely sepertate issue. Refuting that local people in Sheffield are responsible for recession because of their political outlook does not imply I am saying they were responsible for the boom years because of their political outlook. I don't quite see by what logic you think that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 That is a completely sepertate issue. Refuting that local people in Sheffield are responsible for recession because of their political outlook does not imply I am saying they were responsible for the boom years because of their political outlook. I don't quite see by what logic you think that. You are placing blame for the collapse of the Sheffield economy on the bankers but not accepting the bankers made the apparent good economy possible in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkey Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 You are placing blame for the collapse of the Sheffield economy on the bankers but not accepting the bankers made the apparent good economy possible in the first place. It isn't a good economy if it collapses. "Let's give the builders their due. It was a lovely block of flats before it collapsed and killed ten people." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 It isn't a good economy if it collapses. "Let's give the builders their due. It was a lovely block of flats before it collapsed and killed ten people." I know, but it was you that claimed it was. Originally Posted by donkey The economy in Sheffield was fine before the credit crunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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