FairDooz Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 If you want a thoughtful read try The Great Partnership by jonathan Sacks to see that science can live with faith and what happens when things go wrong . The lessons from history are stark Ah .. an excellent recommendation. Thanks borderline. 'The most persuasive argument for religious belief I have read' (Andrew Marr, BBC Radio 4 Start the Week ) 'An intelligent, optimistic credo that allows for the happy coexistence of science and religion' (The Times ) 'One of the most engaging thinkers of our time' (The Times ) 'Britain's most authentically prophetic voice' (The Daily Telegraph ) 'Jonathan Sacks's voice carries unique moral authority far beyond the Jewish community' (The Tablet ) A visit to Amazon is called for ... See you later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 RB - let me help you a little ... Thanks for the help! Now let me help you a little... This is a discussion, We are discussing Alain's "idea" of atheists learning from religion, You asked a question about moral guidance, mentioning the 10 commandments as an example, I answered, I then asked you a very simple and relevant question about your example (10 commandments) This is called discussion. We are only becoming "bogged down" due to your refusal to discuss the topic you started, I did my part and answered you. I am not wanting to get into what the 10 commandments actually are, my question is about them being used as a moral code and what examples the bible gives us about following them. Like Moses. Immediately after delivering them to his people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairDooz Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 We are only becoming "bogged down" due to your refusal to discuss the topic you started. That topic's over. The proposal was rejected. It was not about the 10 commandments. That's a diversion entirely created by you - I practically begged you not to go there ... You can cultivate your anger as much as you like (you know I'm winding you up don't you?) but there's nothing more to say ... or is there? Go on ... you know you want to ... start that thread on the 10 commandments ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairDooz Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 PS Is buddhism a religion? If so maybe you can learn from Buddha ... "Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairDooz Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 PPS I play sport and believe that sport is good for us. This is not religion but I do believe what was once said ... "Our antagonist is our helper. He that wrestles with us strengthens our muscles and sharpens our skill." My prayer (another wind up) is that you will become stronger from this interaction. But maybe you have nothing to learn from anyone? I'm going to ignore you now. It will strengthen you. With love. FairDooz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 That topic's over. The proposal was rejected. It was not about the 10 commandments. That's a diversion entirely created by you - I practically begged you not to go there ... You can cultivate your anger as much as you like (you know I'm winding you up don't you?) but there's nothing more to say ... or is there? Go on ... you know you want to ... start that thread on the 10 commandments ... Wow, even Graham/Agbus didn't cop-out that easily/blatantly. Very well, I wish you good luck with your one-sided discussion methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 PS- Which part of my posts do you interpret as anger and why? Maybe the notion of an "atheist attitude " stems from such situations where an answer is given by an atheist and then asks a question of his own, only to be met with "I'm not answering that", then upon pursuing this , is told "you are very angry!" Perhaps people should try and see the difference between anger and reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwhine Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 My prayer (another wind up) is that you will become stronger from this interaction. But maybe you have nothing to learn from anyone? I'm going to ignore you now. It will strengthen you. With love. FairDooz Just watch this, then tell me about prayer again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairDooz Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 I'm sorry but I'm not going to argue unless you accept the premise of the thread. (allusion to Python's "right room for an argument" sketch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y) The premise of the thread, as explained in de Botton's video, is this: OF COURSE atheists don't believe in God, or prayer, or the ten commandments or many/most of he things in the bible ... Let's get over it! Now then. What are the values (not beliefs - see earlier posts) and morals that we do share? What is the common ground that we can explore to good use? What are the things we can celebrate in art and holydays and festivals and public architecture? I have no interest in discussing the areas of disagreement. That's not copping out, it's focusing on the topic which I started. However, what I didn't appreciate was the strength of feeling against religion. Not disinterest or ambivalence, but vehement opposition (which I've picked up on as anger). If you want to argue about differences, you'll have to find somebody else. I will be reading Jonathan Sachs' book recommended by borderline which I've ordered from Amazon. PS Try the vid at 1m 14s - this links precisely there: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barleycorn Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 :hihi: Quite. The chances of winning the lottery are probably greater. Not quite. Chances of being miraculously healed are 1 in 2.94 million, chances of winning the lottery are 1 in 13.9 million. /pedant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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