Conrod Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Labours day will come.....when the electorate sees thru' the selfishness and greed of the Torys. If it dosent happen then the electorate has got what it deserves... Labour can be influenced by lobbying, joining a Trade Union and taking an active part. If an ordinary bod thinks he can change the thinking of the Tory party he is under a delusion. Bloody two bob millionaires.......... You are right about Labour pandering to the relatively wealthy, Jim Graham, obviously they were chasing middle class votes. As soon as the benefits are taken away then the support will cease. Mr Cameron now has the job of sorting out that problem and he will lose middle class support. They really are the 'whats in it for me' voters, not the poor. It really is just a class and wealth thing to you, isn't it? In most of England - away from embittered left wing Labour heartlands like South Yorkshire - it's quite different. Ordinary working people vote Conservative because they don't like Labour squandering their hard-earned tax on its policy of bloating the welfare state to buy the votes of all the dole monkeys, or uncontrolled immigration, or excessive state controls. England is a Conservative country - it's only the Scottish and Welsh seats that make it close come election time. Because of Labour's advantage in the constituency boundaries, we have in the past even had Labour election win despite more people in the UK voting Conservative than labour - do you suggest that every Conservative voter is wealthy? They're not, most are ordinary people who just like traditional British and English values and don't like what Labour does. Labour and the trades Unions have brainwashed their followers into thinking it's a class war, and that Tories are all either 'Toffs or two bob millionaires'. Well, if they were, they wouldn't get enough votes, and England wouldn't be a predominantly Tory country, would it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 In other words Not in his words. You're paraphrasing and getting it wrong. Marx's politics has flaws, but it is not "sharing money around". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuy Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 It really is just a class and wealth thing to you, isn't it? In most of England - away from embittered left wing Labour heartlands like South Yorkshire - it's quite different. Ordinary working people vote Conservative because they don't like Labour squandering their hard-earned tax on its policy of bloating the welfare state to buy the votes of all the dole monkeys, or uncontrolled immigration, or excessive state controls. England is a Conservative country - it's only the Scottish and Welsh seats that make it close come election time. Because of Labour's advantage in the constituency boundaries, we have in the past even had Labour election win despite more people in the UK voting Conservative than labour - do you suggest that every Conservative voter is wealthy? They're not, most are ordinary people who just like traditional British and English values and don't like what Labour does. Labour and the trades Unions have brainwashed their followers into thinking it's a class war, and that Tories are all either 'Toffs or two bob millionaires'. Well, if they were, they wouldn't get enough votes, and England wouldn't be a predominantly Tory country, would it? Quoted for truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchresearch Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 They're not, most are ordinary people who just like traditional British and English values and don't like what Labour does. Labour and the trades Unions have brainwashed their followers into thinking it's a class war, and that Tories are all either 'Toffs or two bob millionaires'. Well, if they were, they wouldn't get enough votes, and England wouldn't be a predominantly Tory country, would it? Well said. The ignorance of some people is pathetic. I bet half don't even know their MP, never mind what they're like as a person or what they do for their constituency. Its quite vulgar to judge a person purely on their class and upbringing which is what the left tend to do. I'm a Conservative supporter, yet I was dragged up on the Badger estate for decades. I was unemployed for a time, didn't do that well in school, I started in the lowliest of positions in the steel works. But I worked hard and bettered myself. The unions are no better. UNISON's latest campaign was to compare the pension of a public sector worker with David Cameron's. Hardly comparing like for like. I found it amusing that their own leader Prentiss has a massive pension coming his way, but they don't like to publicise that! The Conservative Party of the 90's was in poor shape, I'm not ashamed to admit. It had scandal after scandal and rightly deserved to be put in the wilderness as "punishment" for a few years to allow it to change. Labour had a good run but, like the Tories, it all ended badly at the end, and now they have to have their period in the wilderness - with their Iain Duncan Smith or Menzies Campbell. Maybe once they stop denying the problems of their past and the failings of their previous two leaders then they can move on. Dry your tears, the lost election was years ago, pick up your dummies and debate properly using facts and not misconceptions, and stop bleating on about Thatcher and how she personally closed the pits and cutlery factories and stole your milk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Not in his words. You're paraphrasing and getting it wrong. Marx's politics has flaws, but it is not "sharing money around". The paraphrase works perfectly. If you want to be more precise then we can say that Marx and Engels ideology was to take away (by force if necessary) the property of the bourgeoisie (the middle classes and above) and the petit bourgeoisie (the self employed working classes) and give it to the proletariat (the working classes who have jobs) in the shape of the state. Crikey, it's so contrived and pathetic am idea that it's even a PITA to explain. It's a terrible concept that has failed miserably and instantly every time that it has been tried. Communism / statism has long since been discredited. It simply doesn't work - even Labour has moved on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The paraphrase works perfectly. No it doesn't. We're going off-topic, but I'll take it there. If I work in a shop, and my boss owns and runs the shop; sharing the profits equally is not Marxist. Sharing the sum of his bank account and my bank account, equally between us, is not Marxist or Socialist. That was my point, and that is true. He would still own the shop, and after the money had been shared out he'd still profit from the business and I would still be selling my labour to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Surely, it's almost a certainty that Labour will get back into power at some time? They may do so as the lesser partner in a coalition government - but whether that coalition is with, or in opposition to the Sharia party is anybody's guess. Either way, the Labour Party would never alone form a UK Government if/when Scotland is detached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchresearch Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 To be fair they've done well to take Wales from Plaid Cymru (but aren't doing too well at the moment though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tradescanthia Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Its been said in this thread that its a class and wealth thing with me. I can assure you it isn't. Outwardly I appear middle class, I am reasonably wealthy......due to hard work and being prudent. I havent used a credit card in years, or borrowed money. I dont need to. I own property and, until recently, more than one vehicle. BUT I am aware of the fact that there are a lot of good people out their struggling to make ends meet, some of them havent a cat in hells chance of achieving what I have achieved........and if they think the Torys will help them they are dreaming. Labour is by no means perfect but the Tory criminals disgust me. How they can fool so many people I will never know. When you vote Tory you are saying F**k you to your disadvantaged neighbour. How come Sheffield has no Tory MP ??? I reckon the few Tory voters Sheffield has post on this forum. I dont have a 'class thing', I just think that a lot of poorer people deserve better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Its been said in this thread that its a class and wealth thing with me. Don't let them kid you, it's a wealth thing with them too, which is one reason they're always trying to bully other people or put them down or even brag. They are trying influence public opinion. You only have to look at my sig to see what type of people they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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