Guest sibon Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 If for example you went to Pitsmoor and there were a group of young black youths on a corner and they were angry and shouting abuse at a passing police car because one of their friends had been beaten up and arrested for nothing and you said, "I know just how you feel"...you wouldn't. You might. If you were black. Had been young once. And had mates who had been beaten up by the police. You neeed to take care with your generalisations, Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Sidney Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 "Being a feminist" does not require that you've experience of being female, it only requires that you support the principle of women having equal rights. Agreed but they then can't claim to be on the same level as other feminists who have experienced discrimination, they're second division feminists then, at least... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Sidney Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 You might. If you were black. Had been young once. And had mates who had been beaten up by the police. You neeed to take care with your generalisations, Frank. I don't think it is..... You'd still only experienced it through others eyes. Not your own.. I was beaten up frequently enough in my youth, by the police, to know that unless you've experienced it first hand, you can only guess.. PS I might ad on a couple of occasions I probably deserved it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sibon Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 PS I might ad on a couple of occasions I probably deserved it.. I find that hard to imagine:) I think that many of us will have experienced some unorthodox policing as youngsters. It is useful in understanding why others get angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffragette1 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Its not possible for a man to become a feminist, I've already explained all that to you...Its possible for a man to have empathy to the feminist cause, but without experiencing discrimination as a member of the subject group, we, they, can only imagine the way the said group feels. If for example you went to Pitsmoor and there were a group of young black youths on a corner and they were angry and shouting abuse at a passing police car because one of their friends had been beaten up and arrested for nothing and you said, "I know just how you feel"...you wouldn't. I suppose as a movement they can take part, but they're only second tier feminists at the least. A lot of them do it because it massages their "right on muscles" and makes them feel good....Some people think its their life's goal to do good, as they see it. That's fine but I sometimes wonder if they do it for their own benefit and for brownie points within their own circle of likewise do-gooders... Then there are the male feminists who do it to, well, you know, gain favour with the said lady. Men and women will, and do, do anything, to gain favour with the opposite sex..... But of course their are other men who do it for an good reason, for no personal gain. They're usually wrong, but that's up to them.... I take issue with this. There are plenty of men out there who are 'real feminists'. As I said, whilst they have not had the female experience, you, nor anyone for that matter, should denigrate their convictions. I did not grow up under Apartheid, but does that make me less of an anti-apartheid person? You do not necessarily have to experience something to know that it is wrong. I think that you're confusing empathy and sympathy here. ETA: the corollary of your reasoning would be that all women must be feminists, which clearly they are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Sidney Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I find that hard to imagine:) I think that many of us will have experienced some unorthodox policing as youngsters. It is useful in understanding why others get angry. There are some very angry young men about. I don't blame them...They haven't a hope.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Sidney Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I take issue with this. There are plenty of men out there who are 'real feminists'. As I said, whilst they have not had the female experience, you, nor anyone for that matter, should denigrate their convictions. I did not grow up under Apartheid, but does that make me less of an anti-apartheid person? You do not necessarily have to experience something to know that it is wrong. I think that you're confusing empathy and sympathy here. I agree. I knew I was getting myself in a tangle with this when I started..I need some more time to develop my theory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffragette1 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 What about the abolitionists? Were they any less anti-slavery as they hadn't worked on a plantation? Were the anti-Nazis any less so if they hadn't endured the horrors of the holocaust? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Sidney Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I take issue with this. There are plenty of men out there who are 'real feminists'. As I said, whilst they have not had the female experience, you, nor anyone for that matter, should denigrate their convictions. I did not grow up under Apartheid, but does that make me less of an anti-apartheid person? You do not necessarily have to experience something to know that it is wrong. I think that you're confusing empathy and sympathy here. ETA: the corollary of your reasoning would be that all women must be feminists, which clearly they are not. I'm not just disagreeing with you on purpose, but I think all women are feminists...Its just how they see it. Ask any women if she thinks she should be treated equally and measures should be made to encourage more women in politics and other male dominated industries then they'd say they were feminists. They may differ to your idea of feminism...But all women want equality. This is where it all fell apart on the last thread. The active "feminists" are alienating some women because their idea of "feminism" isn't appealing enough. Its too restrictive and the people involved are too rabid with what is, and what isn't. acceptable. A few years ago I worked somewhere and this bloke was really friendly with a woman. He got the wrong impression and touched her leg. She reported him, he was suspended and was off for about a year and then took early retirement. In effect his career ended because of this. He was wrong. he got the wrong impression, he didn't understand that she wasn't interested in that way. He made a mistake. And paid the price. I was telling my mother about it. I liked the bloke, he was a good man. I felt sorry for him. My mother said, "If it had been me I would have slapped him across the face and told him to **** off, and that would have been the end of it." I can't imagine many feminists agreeing with this approach? That's the trouble.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chorba Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Feminists can be pretty bad too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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