HeadingNorth Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 He just needs a good shake. If he loves the kids he will see sense. It could be worse, I have just come off a topic where Halibut is asking that we treat Abu Qatada's wife and kids with respect and keep the hubby here, even though he would have everyone else killed in the name off bla bla bla. They say that WE should respect him, his wife and his kids to a family life here even though he does not wish anyone else to. Now that's a dilemma for you Where's the dilemma? If not wanting people to have the right to a family life is evil, then you're evil for not wanting that for Qatada's children. If it is not evil, then Qatada is doing nothing wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hard2miss Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Where's the dilemma? If not wanting people to have the right to a family life is evil, then you're evil for not wanting that for Qatada's children. If it is not evil, then Qatada is doing nothing wrong. So if I wanted my kids to be called Adolph Hitler and the social services wanted to take the kids off me for it, would they be wrong or me ? That's the dilemma. Do the parents actions make the state have to go against what they think is right mentally and socially for the kids or do they sit back and let the kids endure anything that comes with the parents narrow minded way of thinking? So If I want to bring my kids up evil and in an evil environment anyone/society not wanting that are more evil ? I am interested in any ones point of view on this predicament/dilemma. Especially those who speak up about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*_ash_* Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 So if I wanted my kids to be called Adolph Hitler and the social services wanted to take the kids off me for it, would they be wrong or me ? That's the dilemma. Do the parents actions make the state have to go against what they think is right mentally and socially for the kids or do they sit back and let the kids endure anything that comes with the parents narrow minded way of thinking? So If I want to bring my kids up evil and in an evil environment anyone/society not wanting that are more evil ? I am interested in any ones point of view on this predicament/dilemma. Especially those who speak up about it. Calling your kid Adolf Hitler, and bringing them up 'evil', are two different things. You seem to have brought them together to create a dilemma that isn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hard2miss Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Calling your kid Adolf Hitler, and bringing them up 'evil', are two different things. You seem to have brought them together to create a dilemma that isn't there.So if I am Abu Hamza or Abu Qatada and want to bring my kids up to hate the west, the very place they live, you cannot see the conflict in that ? Please explain the difference to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*_ash_* Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 So if I am Abu Hamza or Abu Qatada and want to bring my kids up to hate the west, the very place they live, you cannot see the conflict in that ? Please explain the difference to me. You keep introducing new arguments. I quoted one point... though in fairness, I should perhaps have bolded the first bit to make it clearer... So if I wanted my kids to be called Adolph Hitler and the social services wanted to take the kids off me for it, would they be wrong or me ? That's the dilemma. Do the parents actions make the state have to go against what they think is right mentally and socially for the kids or do they sit back and let the kids endure anything that comes with the parents narrow minded way of thinking? So If I want to bring my kids up evil and in an evil environment anyone/society not wanting that are more evil ? I am interested in any ones point of view on this predicament/dilemma. Especially those who speak up about it. to which I wrote... Calling your kid Adolf Hitler, and bringing them up 'evil', are two different things. You seem to have brought them together to create a dilemma that isn't there. Which I think is a perfectly fair argument. You have made one point then made a conclusion based on that, then same again, and produced another conclusion based on that - it creates irrelevance. It's a fallacious argumentation in response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hard2miss Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 You keep introducing new arguments. I quoted one point... though in fairness, I should perhaps have bolded the first bit to make it clearer... to which I wrote... Which I think is a perfectly fair argument. You have made one point then made a conclusion based on that, then same again, and produced another conclusion based on that - it creates irrelevance. It's a fallacious argumentation in response. I do not see the conflict in my argument at all. I state that if I bring my children into the world in a way that is abhorrent to the society that they are being brought up in, then if that society wishes to take them away from me and exclude them from their upbringing, would that society be wrong or me for bring them into that society that way ? Its not a very hard argument unless you wish to be pedantic about it. Now would you care to comment/elaborate further on my question ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadingNorth Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I do not see the conflict in my argument at all. I don't suppose that anyone really expected you to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hard2miss Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I don't suppose that anyone really expected you to. Feel free to change the point of view, that's what debates are about so I'm told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hard2miss Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I am always open to a change of view, if what I believe is broken down in ways I understand logically. I will be the first to point out (and always have been) that my line of thought was wrong when put to me in a way that has challenged my beliefs. I kid you not, I am far more willing to be right than adamant I think I'm right in something I'm wrong in. At the moment I do not see another avenue of belief so am yearning for the challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selphie Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Getting back on topic, It's very difficult where houses are concerned. If your ex-partner wants you out then he can apply for a court order for division and sale (think that's what it's called). It is a long and expensive process and the judge is not guaranteed to sanction it when kids are involved, but it can happen. The judge would take into account who has legal custody of the children, for instance if you both have joint custody then both parties would need somewhere safe for the children etc. I can't really go into the legal side of it because i'm not a solicitor. I'm just drawing on my experiences. On the other hand, if you can't buy your ex out and are happy to keep paying the full mortgage think about the long term. You could sink all your money into a property over say 20 years only to sell it and have to hand over half of the proceedings to your ex. He/she will always be entitled to it whilst ever they are on the deeds. My advice, flog it and move on. It gives you a clean break and makes things a lot less complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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