Cyclone Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 do dogs know they are a dog or do they just think they are "something" I don't understand what you're asking. Are you asking if they identify themselves as belonging to a group of related beings? Dogs can clearly distinguish between people, other dogs and other animals (for example cats), they don't appear to have a language so they probably don't have an inner monologue and wouldn't think of themselves using speech. Presumably the whole 'people aren't animals thing was coming from religious types'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 I don't understand what you're asking. Are you asking if they identify themselves as belonging to a group of related beings? Dogs can clearly distinguish between people, other dogs and other animals (for example cats), they don't appear to have a language so they probably don't have an inner monologue and wouldn't think of themselves using speech. Presumably the whole 'people aren't animals thing was coming from religious types'? Mine definitely knows the difference between dogs and humans. He also sees other dogs as territorial threats (when at home) and he recognises his dog image in the mirror. He does seem to think he is one of us sometimes, even walking on his hind legs on occasion. Willman might have been referring to this, which could be some mild identity confusion in animals raised in captivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barleycorn Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Well I always thought most animals were self-aware, some opinions to the contradictory on here last year were the first I knew of people thinking otherwise. These are the people I'd be interested to hear from on the subject most. I suspect it's just an unfounded belief they have that fits in with other beliefs (ie that we are NOT animals) I have usually only came across this attitude from religious people in order to bolster their claim that we we're created by God rather than being products of evilution. jb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Mine definitely knows the difference between dogs and humans. He also sees other dogs as territorial threats (when at home) and he recognises his dog image in the mirror. He does seem to think he is one of us sometimes, even walking on his hind legs on occasion. Willman might have been referring to this, which could be some mild identity confusion in animals raised in captivity. They probably think that it's very unfair, they have to sleep in a basket, eat dog food and aren't allowed to sit at the table and have bacon and egg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Presumably the whole 'people aren't animals thing was coming from religious types'? You presume correctly but I'd rather not have this turn into another religious thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medusa Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I don't know why the assumption was ever made that they weren't self aware. The logical assumption would be to assume they are:huh: This is spectacular http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/16832378 I have seen videos of birds making tools as well. I would imagine that the people who decided that no animals other than humans are self aware are pretty much the same group who decided that babies feel no pain (although we can very easily demonstrate that they do). Historically humans have been very artificially put in a class apart from animals, which is very hard to understand when you can see so many animals which evolved along with humans, and the outdated concepts that only humans make tools, only humans communicate and only humans do anything by choice rather than just as a means of survival can all be debunked in a similar way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeX Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 no, I'm pretty sure no animal can recognise itself in a mirror, and this is the benchmark for being self aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnailyBoy Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 no, I'm pretty sure no animal can recognise itself in a mirror, and this is the benchmark for being self aware. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/01/science/brainy-dolphins-pass-the-human-mirror-test.html?pagewanted=all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaliRichard Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Something that has cropped up briefly in threads before but not really discussed- I know that some people on here believe that animals are not self-aware, these same people have said that we are not animals. Most evidence suggests (in my opinion) that many animals ARE self aware and that we ARE animals. There's also plenty of evidence to suggest that some animals can share some of our cognitive skills. I asked one person what he thought the difference between us and animals is, to which he gave an answer that proved false. I'm interested to hear what others think Good O/P. I'm going to go slightly off topic here so forgive me but it is only so that I can go into detail. The question of whether we are different, in reference to us being 'better', or 'more' than animals or not is one I have addressed many times (with both theists and academic atheists) and when I make the suggestion that we are 'just' animals I get scoffed at from all corners. Of course the idea that we are higher than animals can partially be traced back to Britains Christian heritage but more disturbing is that our arrogant notion that we are somehow 'better' than the rest of the animal kingdom rests on four flimsy philosophical points that are still held on to by academics to this day. The four points are that humans are the only animal that can plan for the future, has self recognition, partakes in trade and uses tools. Now most of you reading this will glance at that and probably be thinking 'eh, but we know other animals can do all those things', and we do, but since those philosophical notions were suggested a fifth has been added (usually when those four are demonstrated to be wrong) and that is, but we have more cognitive power. Just a quick aside here, most of my opponents in this debate don't like me using the word 'higher' when referring to humans, they prefer unique, but it can get confusing because what they mean by unique is 'a higher form of life', the word unique is not appropriate in this context - I will attempt to demonstrate why. The Turritopsis nutricula is a jellyfish that can return to the first stage of life, it is the only creature on this planet that can, it is unique, but if it had the arrogance of human beings it would say that it was the highest form of life because of that ability. You see we arrogantly suggest that because we have some unique cognitive ability that this makes us the highest form of life on this planet, but that is only because we are choosing our own criteria. If the criteria for being the highest form of life was jumping 100 times your own body length, a flea would be the highest form of life, do you get what I'm trying to say? In fact I would go further and say observe human behaviour. Sit and watch groups of lads or lasses on a Saturday night in town, they behave 'animalistically', that is, if you swapped them with groups of animals in the savannah, the behaviour would be identical, but we don't notice it, because we dress it up and more than likely choose to ignore it. Take a business man who outdoes his rival to win a contract, strip away all the human aspects and you have an animal trying to ensure the survival of his pack - but we are too arrogant to acknowledge it. I think the reason it is largely ignored is because if we acknowledged it we would have to look at our behaviour to other species (and I'm no animal rights activist so bear that in mind), but we cage, experiment, farm, cull etc, the list goes on. If we were to acknowledge that we were 'just' animals and as such we extended the rights we hold dear to animals then we would have to re think our whole society/ethics/HUMANISM. Because our entire identity is based around us being a 'higher' form of life than the rest of the animal kingdom. On a lighter note, my dog can identify himself in the mirror too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barleycorn Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 no, I'm pretty sure no animal can recognise itself in a mirror, and this is the benchmark for being self aware. You're wrong on both counts. See post 2. jb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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