Homeless in America

[Sierra]

Most of those jobs will have responsibility for money and trust, so...

 

Some of those jobs pay really well. But of course the workers who handle money, they watch them like hawks. Even lower level jobs like food servers, baggage people and bellhops, you can do well with tips if you're good with people and you hustle. The same with cocktail waitresses and Keno girls.

[poppins]

Theres also loads of construction work for these people to do, always some Grunts are needed, but they put one good days work, steal as many tools as they can and don't show up the next day,

[Anna B]

Theres also loads of construction work for these people to do, always some Grunts are needed, but they put one good days work, steal as many tools as they can and don't show up the next day,

 

 

I take it you have first hand experience of this otherwise you wouldn't make such scurilous generalisations would you?

 

I think the idea that 'there's loads of work' sounds a bit unlikely in a recession. The impression I got was that these people would do any work rather than live in poverty, but the work isn't there and if it was it didn't pay enough to live on.

 

As jobs disappear because of outsourcing to countries with lower pay there is no way western countries with much higher standards of living can compete. Do we really want a race to the bottom?

 

New industry is likely to be more high tech with fewer workers and as manufacturers want to increase profits so they are more likely to use mechanisation, robots, etc.

 

Harleyman says education and qualifications is the answer but tell that to the thousands of graduates in Britain who can't get a job, neither is any profession a safe bet, teaching jobs may go as children are educated by computer, policing replaced with surveilance cameras, shopping is done online, even surgeons can be replaced with robots. Who knows what will be left in the future?

 

Mass unemployment seems to be the future overtaking the west. We need to start thinking about ways of sharing the wealth before we become the new third world.

[skinz]

Theres also loads of construction work for these people to do, always some Grunts are needed, but they put one good days work, steal as many tools as they can and don't show up the next day,

 

 

Stop talking gibberish and making stuff up as you go along. One minute Obama is the Devil, the next he presides over a country full of construction jobs.

 

And all your "grunts" are in the forces.

[*_ash_*]

Here's what I think happened and it's pretty basic stuff. At the end of WW2 America was the most industrially and economically powerful country in the world. It's factories turned out a massive amount of consumer goods that Americans who were flush with money were desperate for. After 3-1/2 years of war and full employemt the average American had managed to save up quite a bundle since other than food and other necessities there was really nothing else to spend it on. Factories had all been geared to war production. Cars, washing machines, fridges.... you name it.... that had been bought prewar were either wearing out or had become out of date and functionally obsolete so there was a huge demand dor spanking new products right off the factory floor.

Dont forget too that Europe had been almost destroyed as had Japan and there was no other country that could come anywhere near to competing with American manufactured goods or for that matter even capable of producing them.

Then came Japan in the late 50s/early 60s. Their products were cheaper to buy but cheap and nasty also in the beginning but as the years went by the standards improved dramatically and people started to take a second look at Japanese cars, radios and TVs.

The second stage was the introduction of free trade in the Reagan era. President Nixon had already opened the door to trade with Communist China and other Asian countries and they too started to manufacture products that were cheaper than their American counterparts.

 

It was only a matter of time before American manufactureres said

"Holy Joe. First Japan.. now China are selling and exporting much more than we are and worse... they cost much less. What do we do to compete guys"?

 

"Our labour costs are killing us for a start. We cannot hope to compete if we're paying a guy 15 bucks an hour, plus benefits plus a lifetime pension.

We'll have to shut the doors for good if this keeps up"

 

"Okay lets go for that cheap labour. If we cant lick em we'll join em. Contact the Chinese government and lets get some acreage to build a factory. If we pay them 2 bucks an hour instead of 15 we'll be seriously competative in no time"

 

Anyway to cut a long story short, goodbye factories and goodbye good paying jobs.

 

The moral to this story is that America had to become industrially competative with the rest of the world if it was to survive as a major manufacturing nation.

 

I read somewhere that in the future the average person will more than likely work in three different occupations before retiring. Its a rapidly changing world in every aspect especially technology. New technologies appear and existing technologies disappear and people need to be prepared for that.

 

The important thing above all though is to study and train for the professions that are in the greatest demand.

I agree with this post. I think that if you jiggle a few words, then you have the same as here. Lots of blame though here in this country, to why it happened, is aimed at Thatcher, rather than sense which you have written in this post.

 

As jobs disappear because of outsourcing to countries with lower pay there is no way western countries with much higher standards of living can compete.

Yes, correct (at the moment)

Do we really want a race to the bottom?

I don't get your thinking here though. What do you mean?

 

-

 

New industry is likely to be more high tech with fewer workers and as manufacturers want to increase profits so they are more likely to use mechanisation, robots, etc.

It's been like this for decades, and is unlikely to change. We [sheff] produce high quality steels with few employees (for example).

Harleyman says education and qualifications is the answer but tell that to the thousands of graduates in Britain who can't get a job, neither is any profession a safe bet, teaching jobs may go as children are educated by computer, policing replaced with surveilance cameras, shopping is done online, even surgeons can be replaced with robots. Who knows what will be left in the future?

You like many others in here keep writing the same things, just like this bold... offer an alternative if you have the answers!! If we can't compete with low wages then what is the answer? I, the government, the country, all of western society seeks the answer!

Mass unemployment seems to be the future overtaking the west. We need to start thinking about ways of sharing the wealth before we become the new third world.

you let that slip out, methinks

Mass unemployment seems to be the future overtaking the west. We need to start thinking about ways of sharing the wealth before we become the new third world.

Greed and expectancy would have to be wiped out first, before we reach this point. I can't see it happening in our livetimes, or that of our children, or theirs.

[Harleyman]

Theres also loads of construction work for these people to do, always some Grunts are needed, but they put one good days work, steal as many tools as they can and don't show up the next day,

 

Fact of the matter is that a lot of them are a danger to themselves and everyone else if you were to give em a job on a building site.

 

You couldn't trust them with a shovel let alone any more sophisticated tools and as for having to climb scaffolding....... no way.

 

As for reliability... you're absolutely right. If they managed to stay on the job long enough to get their first paycheck they'd blow it on booze and not show up again.

 

I once hired a "recovering" alcoholic as a general labourer. He couldn't handle the hard shovel work, nearly dropped a wheelbarrow load of busted concrete on a fellow workers foot and fell into an open trench landing on another worker who was already in there.

 

That was the last time for me

[poppins]

I take it you have first hand experience of this otherwise you wouldn't make such scurilous generalisations would you?

 

I think the idea that 'there's loads of work' sounds a bit unlikely in a recession. The impression I got was that these people would do any work rather than live in poverty, but the work isn't there and if it was it didn't pay enough to live on.

 

As jobs disappear because of outsourcing to countries with lower pay there is no way western countries with much higher standards of living can compete. Do we really want a race to the bottom?

 

New industry is likely to be more high tech with fewer workers and as manufacturers want to increase profits so they are more likely to use mechanisation, robots, etc.

 

Harleyman says education and qualifications is the answer but tell that to the thousands of graduates in Britain who can't get a job, neither is any profession a safe bet, teaching jobs may go as children are educated by computer, policing replaced with surveilance cameras, shopping is done online, even surgeons can be replaced with robots. Who knows what will be left in the future?

 

Mass unemployment seems to be the future overtaking the west. We need to start thinking about ways of sharing the wealth before we become the new third world.

 

Yes I do have first hand knowledge of these people working of job sites, tools have been stolen from my brother in laws site that they wouldn't know how to use anyhow , as for jobs being taken over by new techonology, sounds like you just realised it,, where've you been for the past few years

[poppins]

Stop talking gibberish and making stuff up as you go along. One minute Obama is the Devil, the next he presides over a country full of construction jobs.

 

And all your "grunts" are in the forces.

 

The US army wouldn't go looking for those kinds of people

[Anna B]

Yes I do have first hand knowledge of these people working of job sites, tools have been stolen from my brother in laws site that they wouldn't know how to use anyhow , as for jobs being taken over by new techonology, sounds like you just realised it,, where've you been for the past few years

 

Of course I haven't just realised it. It's been going on since the Luddites started wrecking looms, but it is gathering pace and I honestly think we are going to witness mass unemployment on an unprecedented scale in our lifetime.

And I can't see a way back, if the only way to get the money needed to live is to work, (and there is no work) then the result will be starvation.

 

We tolerate starvation in Africa (a quarter of the world's children go hungry - not because of a shortage of food but because they can't afford to buy it.) I wonder how we will feel when it's us that's doing the starving.

[Rupert_Baehr]

... I think the idea that 'there's loads of work' sounds a bit unlikely in a recession. The impression I got was that these people would do any work rather than live in poverty, but the work isn't there and if it was it didn't pay enough to live on.

 

There may not be work for everybody - but there certainly is work - and well-paid work, too though some of it is unpleasant and it isn't always 'on your doorstep'.

 

I have a friend aged 55 who lived in Michigan. He recently lost his job and couldn't find a job which paid much above minimum wage, so he's gone to Minot SD. (Why not Minot? - Freezin's the reason.) The climate (particularly at this time of the year) is harsh. There is a considerable amount of oil exploration going on there and there are jobs going. Hard work in a challenging climate - but well-paid work.

 

Nagel said (some weeks ago on another thread) that oil companies are crying out for skilled people - they can't get them. It appears that either people lack the skills, or lack the motivation. "I don't want to work there because it's uncomfortable/it takes me away from home/ it's too much like hard work/it's dangerous and I might get hurt - (insert your own reason.)"

 

Then there are the companies which complain that they can't get people with the skills they want in the local markets, so they have to import them from elsewhere. If the people in the developed world won't obtain the skills and qualifications necessary for the hi-tech jobs, then others will and will come in and take those jobs too.

 

As jobs disappear because of outsourcing to countries with lower pay there is no way western countries with much higher standards of living can compete. Do we really want a race to the bottom?

 

The unskilled and low-skilled jobs go first. We've known that was going to happen for at least the last 50 years. Developed countries can't compete with countries which have lower pay in unskilled work, but they certainly can compete in high-skilled areas and indeed, have a head start. Why do we not have a pool of highly-skilled well-trained people ready to take the hi-tech jobs? Are there no schools in the UK? It appears that 40% or more of the people who leave school are unemployable.

 

Harleyman says education and qualifications is the answer but tell that to the thousands of graduates in Britain who can't get a job, neither is any profession a safe bet, teaching jobs may go as children are educated by computer, policing replaced with surveilance cameras, shopping is done online, even surgeons can be replaced with robots. Who knows what will be left in the future?

 

What degrees do those thousands of unemployed graduates have? Forty years ago if you had a 2-2 in almost any subject. you would have little difficulty in getting a job. Then again, 40 years ago the 'top 5%' (plus a few others) went to university.

 

Nowadays, you don't even need 'A' levels to get on some courses. Standards have fallen . A few years ago Mandelson said: "Too many people are failing to complete degree courses. We should make the courses easier."

 

I doubt many potential employers would agree with him.

 

Standards haven't fallen everywhere, but they have done in enough places to make employers aware that merely having a 'degree' is not an indication that an individual is potentially suitable as an employee.

 

Can computers assess a student, can they consider the student's reasoning and provide advice and guidance? - AI is nowhere near that good

 

Do the surveillance cameras analyse the data they capture?

 

Do you really think robots can (or would be allowed to) operate on people unsupervised?

 

Shopping is done online, computers order stock for shops (though they don't always get it right ). Automation and mechanisation have reduced costs - which mean that more people are able to buy hi-tech products nowadays. Forty years ago, few people in te UK had colour TVs - they were very expensive. Thirty years ago few people had computers. Both items are now ubiquitous. Indeed, if you haven't got a colour TV in the UK nowadays, you're classed as being 'deprived'.

 

Mass unemployment seems to be the future overtaking the west. We need to start thinking about ways of sharing the wealth before we become the new third world.

 

Or perhaps we need to start thinking about what qualifications and skills we need to do the jobs before the third world beat us to them.