Homeless in America

[Rupert_Baehr]

I was involved in a Panorama production some years ago. The Producer had his agenda and stuck to that agenda.

 

The crew shot over one hundred hours of film and then edited it to support the producer's views.

 

Panorama is no more 'the truth' than is the X-Files. It's merely the producers point of view (and may well be about as accurate as the 'facts' revealed in the X-Files.)

 

It's entertainment. - If it entertains you.

 

The thing that did interest me about the Panorama programme with which I was involved (and it certainly wasn't a part of the programme which was aired on TV) was the cost of making it.

 

One producer (and a deputy) two complete sound and video teams (2 cameramen, 2 assistant cameramen, 2 'best boys', 2 assistant 'best boys', 2 'grips' (buggers' grips?), 2 assistant grips, 2 Audio engineers, 2 microphone wavers, 2 mixers (and all their deputies) 2 sets of make-up people (to do the make-up for the producer and the assistant producer) and a handful of others.)

 

Their pay scheme was fairly straightforward. Basic rate of pay for the first 40 hours. Double pay for the next 40 hours. Triple pay for the next 40 hours. Qadruple pay for the next 40 hours and quintuple pay for the last 8 hours. - There are, of course, 168 hours in a week and if you don't go home, you are entitled to be paid for all of them.

 

They took nearly 3 weeks to make their 'documentary'. They were working outside the UK, so all their pay was tax-free. They also received an accommodation allowance - at 5 star hotel rates. There weren't actually any hotels there (the filming took place on Ascension Island) so they were given free food and accommodation, but allowed to claim what they would have needed had there been a 5-star hotel with appropriate standard restaurants. Another few hundred pounds a day 'allowances'.

 

The money for that little lot came from your TV licence fees.

 

As the BBC say: "It's only because of the way we are funded that we can (get away with) make(ing) programmes the way we do."

[buck]

This is a story about two sons, mine, Dave and Mike. Dave has a lot of natural talent, brilliant at computer maintenance and website production, good handyman. Dave is the elder of the two, but has one big problem, He hates education. When he scraped through High School, I had enough money to get him started in college, but he wanted none of it, and joined the army about the time of Desert Storm in 1990. Mike was a wild Irish kid, vandalizer, very much in love with a gorgeous blonde from another high school. Technically he was a disaster, forever stripping threads from trying to unscrew in the wrong direction. However he managed to get in to a local community college for a two year Associates Degree in media. His blonde girl friend went off to Keene State U on a four year BSC degree. After two years Mike also went to Keene to complete a BA. Finally MIke and Melissa graduated, got engaged in Ireland and married in 2000. Dave was posted to Iraq for a year, and when he got home could not find work, surviving on unemployment and VA grants. Finally he and his wife and three kids loaded up and went to Florida. He works as a site janitor in a gated community on near minimum wage, while Katie his wife drives a school bus. All because he wan't able to convince anybody of his talents without any papers to prove it. Mike and Melissa both work for Prudential Insurance in Hartford. He has a Master's and specializes in accounts for the elderly. She is a psychologist working in Human Resources. They have two girls, own their own home, each of them owns a car, and make over $100,000 a year together. He still doesn't know which way to turn a screwdriver but who cares. There may be some graduates out there who are not getting a job right away, but not many. If you're willing to relocate in the US you'll find work. Right now 8 or 9 people in a 100 are not working. Is it any better in UK, I don't know. All I do know is I can watch the traffic on Interstate 91 at any time of the day or night from my room, and wonder where they're all going to, cos there's an awful lot of them.

[Harleyman]

It seems to me some young-uns think that getting a degree is the final step when in fact it's just a good start. The USA is a third world country and it's like that because the children get molly - cuddled and quite often think the world owes them a living " because I'm an American " Drivers have to slow down to a crawl while 16 year olds get out of a school bus because the poor dears can't walk across the road on their own.

 

If these degrees are so wonderful why don't they give the recipients the tools to start their own business.

 

I've lived in the USA for 18 years and life is good if you have money but probably the worst country in the world if you haven't.

 

I fail to see the slightest sense in that statement.

 

As for having to slow down in school areas that's just common sense when children are around.

 

 

What do drivers do where yiou come from? Pedal to the metal 25-80 in 7 seconds ?

[Harleyman]

I take it you have first hand experience of this otherwise you wouldn't make such scurilous generalisations would you?

 

I think the idea that 'there's loads of work' sounds a bit unlikely in a recession. The impression I got was that these people would do any work rather than live in poverty, but the work isn't there and if it was it didn't pay enough to live on.

 

As jobs disappear because of outsourcing to countries with lower pay there is no way western countries with much higher standards of living can compete. Do we really want a race to the bottom?

 

New industry is likely to be more high tech with fewer workers and as manufacturers want to increase profits so they are more likely to use mechanisation, robots, etc.

 

Harleyman says education and qualifications is the answer but tell that to the thousands of graduates in Britain who can't get a job, neither is any profession a safe bet, teaching jobs may go as children are educated by computer, policing replaced with surveilance cameras, shopping is done online, even surgeons can be replaced with robots. Who knows what will be left in the future?

 

Mass unemployment seems to be the future overtaking the west. We need to start thinking about ways of sharing the wealth before we become the new third world.

 

Making the rich one percent pay a taxation rate which is a fair rate based on their wealth and oncome? That sounds fair enough. I presume that's what you mean more or less

[Harleyman]

I agree with this post. I think that if you jiggle a few words, then you have the same as here. Lots of blame though here in this country, to why it happened, is aimed at Thatcher, rather than sense which you have written in this post.

 

 

Yes, correct (at the moment)

 

I don't get your thinking here though. What do you mean?

 

-

 

 

It's been like this for decades, and is unlikely to change. We [sheff] produce high quality steels with few employees (for example).

 

You like many others in here keep writing the same things, just like this bold... offer an alternative if you have the answers!! If we can't compete with low wages then what is the answer? I, the government, the country, all of western society seeks the answer!

 

you let that slip out, methinks

 

Greed and expectancy would have to be wiped out first, before we reach this point. I can't see it happening in our livetimes, or that of our children, or theirs.

 

 

Ironically enough cheap Chinese labour is becoming not so cheap anymore. India is now replacing China as the source for cheap labour and some factories in China have closed shop because labour costs have gone to a level where employers have no longer seen it as viable to stay in business.

 

A further note on China. My wife and I were part of a tour group who visited China in 2008 which was sponsored by our local Chamber of Commerce.

We toured Beijing and Shanghai, saw the glitter, new skyscrapers, streets jam packed with cars, modern buses, motorcycles and electric scooters, stayed in dazzling 5 star hotels which had been built for the Olympics.

All highly impressive when one considers what China was probably like a little over two decades earlier.

But there's another China. The China that the politicians and department of tourism dont want you tourists to see and more than likely wouldn't let you see anyway even if you wanted to. It's the China that has been left behind, the areas of rural poverty where millions live in third world conditions.

This was the subject of a program recently on CNN World News.

 

These millions of forgotten people present a potentially serious problem for the Chinese government not least of which is a tide of rising discontent.

 

Interesting times ahead for that country.

[Rupert_Baehr]

I'm going on what my mother has told me as a resident of Florida and recently was fired from her job for no reason.

 

I was also wrongfully fired from a job in NYS and was denied Unemployment. Luckily I was able to take the company to a hearing and won my case. Though NYS is not a right to work state

 

Unemployment CAN be denied if you have been fired from work. Unlike here there is no dole in the US.

 

Indeed, you can get fired from work for no reason. - But that has nothing to do with 'right to work'. Right to work laws are there to prevent an employer from rejecting a potential employee on the grounds of being (or not being) a member of a trades union or labour organisation. It's illegal to operate a 'closed shop' and it's illegal to refuse to employ somebody on the grounds of union membership.

 

NY is not a 'Right to work' state. Do you think the Teamsters or other big unions would allow NY to introduce 'right to work' provisions?

 

There is no dole in the US, but there is 'workers' comp' which pays unemployment benefits - though not in every instance. AFAIR, you can be denied unemployment benefit in the UK under certain circumstances. I was at one time. I had been out of the country for a few years and when I returned I was [temporarily] unemployed.

"You can't claim any benefits because you've been out of the country for the last 3 years."

"But what about the 20 years before that?"

"That doesn't count."

"But I paid NIC while I was out of the country to protect my benefits?"

"That doesn't count, either."

 

I went and got a job. - Any job. Some money is better than no money.

 

Firing somebody is often easier in the US than in Europe - but arguably, the 'flexibility' makes it more likely that an employer will take somebody on (albeit for a short period) when demand is high. The tourism industry (often low-paid and with low profit margins - everybody [not just Sheffielders ] wants a 'cheep' holiday) is particularly prone to firing - and to hiring.

[Rupert_Baehr]

... Dave has a lot of natural talent, brilliant at computer maintenance and website production, good handyman.... Finally he and his wife and three kids loaded up and went to Florida. He works as a site janitor in a gated community on near minimum wage, while Katie his wife drives a school bus. All because he wan't able to convince anybody of his talents without any papers to prove it...

 

If, as you say, Buck, Dave is a good handyman, he might do rather better than you might think.

 

I live in a gated retirement community. We have a maintenance team (who do most of the repairs on houses as a part of our monthly maintenance contract) but the community was formed 26 years ago and a number of the original inhabitants have/are dying off.

 

Their houses are being re-sold and most of the houses which are re-sold are being modernised. The demand for plumbers, electricians, drywall installers, tilers, painters and other building workers is very high. - There's not a lot of 'new build' but there's a hell of a lot of re-modelling work. The prices charged are not low, either. (Re-paint a 3-bed 2000 Sq ft house - owner provides the materials - $2500. Remove and replace a bathtub - owner provides the tub and fittings, price does not include 'making good' $650.) Our maintenance staff work 4 x 10 hour days a week - Which gives them 3 days off ... or 3 days in which to do 'private' work... for which they receive portraits of presidents.

[INTERVIEWER]

The thing that did interest me about the Panorama programme with which I was involved (and it certainly wasn't a part of the programme which was aired on TV) was the cost of making it.

 

A single 25 minute episode of the very cheap (by televison standards) Dr. Who in 1977 cost £20,000 to make.

 

Dr Who, with its wobby sets and below par actors.

 

Most stories of Dr. Who at the time were 4 episodes long, costing £100,000.

 

Only idiots pay the BBC TV License fee so that the wealthy actors and BBC personnel can get even richer.

 

CAN'T PAY - WON'T PAY!

[Harleyman]

Indeed, you can get fired from work for no reason. - But that has nothing to do with 'right to work'. Right to work laws are there to prevent an employer from rejecting a potential employee on the grounds of being (or not being) a member of a trades union or labour organisation. It's illegal to operate a 'closed shop' and it's illegal to refuse to employ somebody on the grounds of union membership.

 

NY is not a 'Right to work' state. Do you think the Teamsters or other big unions would allow NY to introduce 'right to work' provisions?

 

There is no dole in the US, but there is 'workers' comp' which pays unemployment benefits - though not in every instance. AFAIR, you can be denied unemployment benefit in the UK under certain circumstances. I was at one time. I had been out of the country for a few years and when I returned I was [temporarily] unemployed.

"You can't claim any benefits because you've been out of the country for the last 3 years."

"But what about the 20 years before that?"

"That doesn't count."

"But I paid NIC while I was out of the country to protect my benefits?"

"That doesn't count, either."

 

I went and got a job. - Any job. Some money is better than no money.

 

Firing somebody is often easier in the US than in Europe - but arguably, the 'flexibility' makes it more likely that an employer will take somebody on (albeit for a short period) when demand is high. The tourism industry (often low-paid and with low profit margins - everybody [not just Sheffielders ] wants a 'cheep' holiday) is particularly prone to firing - and to hiring.

 

California is not a right to work state either, one of the few states that remain as such.

The unemployemnt rate sits at 11.2 percent somewhat above the national average of 8.3 percent.

The state legislature is majority Democrat which has been the case for several decades although there have been Republican governors now and again.

 

When Governor Schwarzenegger finished his term awhile back one of the Republican candidates who ran for governor was Meg Whitman, formerly CEO of E-Bay and a multi-billionairess.

Whitman consistently placed the blame for California's economic woes on unions and in particular public employee unions, the benefits and pensions that public employees enjoy. She made no pretense that she was out to bust them and carry out an agenda for all public agencies to privatize their work force... meaning cheap labour and few benefits.

Of course California labour has always been solidly behind the state Democrat party so I'm sure she lost no sleep declaring all out war.

However, public employee unions which represent police. firefighters, schoolteachers, nurses, state, county and city workers at all levels fought back and Whitman after spending roughly 75 million of her own money on her campaign was defeated by the Democrat candidate Jerry Brown.

 

The state is going through lean times. Teachers have been laid off, school hours cut and state funded programs either reduced or cut out altogether.

 

I dont see the state ever returning to what it was economically 3-4 decades ago. The end of the cold war cost many jobs in the defense industry and other industries left for greener pastures, either to right to worlk states such as neighbouring Arizona or overseas.

 

Looking at the overall picture from a pessimistic point of view I see the inevitability of cheap labour for a huge number of workers becoming part of the American way of life but I hope I'm wrong if only for our grand kids sake. We keep hearing about "green technology" being the industry of the future and all the wonderful hi tech well paid jobs it will generate. I hope this is a bit more than just rhetorical bul****t

[Rupert_Baehr]

California is not a right to work state either, one of the few states that remain as such.

 

I wonder what percentage of the people who work in the 'entertainment industry' are members of the Screen Actors' Guild or another union? - I suspect those unions might put just a little bit of pressure on any governor who tried to introduce 'Right to Work' laws.

 

Looking at the overall picture from a pessimistic point of view I see the inevitability of cheap labour for a huge number of workers becoming part of the American way of life but I hope I'm wrong if only for our grand kids sake. We keep hearing about "green technology" being the industry of the future and all the wonderful hi tech well paid jobs it will generate. I hope this is a bit more than just rhetorical bul****t

 

Those hi-tech jobs will presumably require skilled and highly-qualified workers. High school dropouts may not get very many of those jobs.

 

According to this link, the High School graduation rate in CA is a mere 68%. In some groups, it's nearer 50%.