Homeless in America

[buck]

that what happens when you dont have a good welfare system no wonder people flock to the uk

Compared to UK, we don't have a great welfare system, but millions are still trying to get in.

[Harleyman]

You say this like unions are a bad thing. All the supermarkets in the lower NY area are unionised. Because of this, even as a part timer I received health benefits, legal protection, overtime on Sundays and holidays, and more. The only downside? No more full timers, as they were too expensive to hire. Upside? 3 out of four weeks a month I worked full time. As long as I didnt work 4 weeks in a row of 40 hours or more, I was still a part timer.

 

Unions protect the small guys from the big guy.

 

 

 

You have to sue for workers comp and those no-win no fee lawyers are a rip off - youll see less than half of your compensation.

 

I came to the UK as a British citizen and was denied recourse to public funds until i had at least 3 years of residency (this rule also applies to all Non-Eu citizens trying to settle in the UK) . It makes sense that the same happened to you for being out of the country for so long. I wouldn't expect my mother to step off the plane, and after not living her for 40+ years, to be given a council house, disability allowance and both her US & UK state pensions (shes only allowed to access one, btw)

 

There were stories going around about the time I left the UK that immigrants right off the boats were getting free eye glasses, all the other NHS benefits and going to the top of the list for council housing.

 

Whether true or false I wouldn't know.

 

The Canadian government paid my fare to Canada but I had to pay it back. They also provided some economic assistance for those who were having difficulty finding work on arrival and British citizens had the right to vote.

I found a job as a carpenter pretty soon but when winter arrived outdoor construction came to a dead halt. I got the pink slip but didnt bother applying for charity. I worked as a janitor for awhile then scarpered to greener pastures

[LeMaquis]

that what happens when you dont have a good welfare system no wonder people flock to the uk

 

You don't seem to be aware of the fact that the USA is built on immigration.

[alternageek]

There were stories going around about the time I left the UK that immigrants right off the boats were getting free eye glasses, all the other NHS benefits and going to the top of the list for council housing.

 

Whether true or false I wouldn't know.

It might have been true when you left 35+ years ago, but its not true now (regardless of what the Daily Hate, er Mail, or Daily Racists, er Express, tell you) Coming in on a marriage or work visa or entering the UK under a new citizenship you need to be in the UK for at least 3 years to claim anything more than the NHS. Housing benefit, working child credits, etc are a no-no until 3 years of continuous residency have been met.

[Harleyman]

This wouldn't surprise me either. Rich people always exploit the poorest, beating the price of labour down to its lowest level by moving manufacturing to the cheapest country, thus maximising their profits.

We live in a global economy, and they are able to exploit that. We ought to find a way to counter that with some sort of Global minimum wage, or tax system that levels the playing field for all.

 

There's been talk of a flat tax for all in the US but it's a loony idea and there would be more loss than gain.

 

For example a working couple with 2 or 3 kids who have just bought a house and are paying a pretty steep mortgage are entitled to claim deductions for dependents and house payments over the year. At the end of the year these deductions can amount to several thousand dollars in tax refunds to the family. This would all be gone under a flat tax system.

The housing market plays a key part in the health of the economy. You dont want to do anything to undermine that.

 

A flat tax would not cover the money required to run the Federal or State governments

 

Only the very wealthy would benefit from a flat tax in the long run

[Anna B]

There's been talk of a flat tax for all in the US but it's a loony idea and there would be more loss than gain.

 

For example a working couple with 2 or 3 kids who have just bought a house and are paying a pretty steep mortgage are entitled to claim deductions for dependents and house payments over the year. At the end of the year these deductions can amount to several thousand dollars in tax refunds to the family. This would all be gone under a flat tax system.

The housing market plays a key part in the health of the economy. You dont want to do anything to undermine that.

 

A flat tax would not cover the money required to run the Federal or State governments

 

Only the very wealthy would benefit from a flat tax in the long run

 

 

I don't know how it would work, I'm no tax expert, but I was thinking more of the manufacturers paying a tax to work in certain countries, so that what they gain in paying poor wages, is lost in paying a manufacturing tax, thus levelling the playing field. This penalty could be offset by increasing the hourly rate of the workers.

 

I'm sure there are flaws in this plan, like I said I'm no expert, but you get the idea. I'm sure brains far superior to mine could come up with a better plan that would work.

 

The aim being that Instead of the profits going into the pockets of the super rich, some of it could go into the pockets of the impoverished workers who do the hard graft.

[Harleyman]

I don't know how it would work, I'm no tax expert, but I was thinking more of the manufacturers paying a tax to work in certain countries, so that what they gain in paying poor wages, is lost in paying a manufacturing tax, thus levelling the playing field. This penalty could be offset by increasing the hourly rate of the workers.

 

I'm sure there are flaws in this plan, like I said I'm no expert, but you get the idea. I'm sure brains far superior to mine could come up with a better plan that would work.

 

The aim being that Instead of the profits going into the pockets of the super rich, some of it could go into the pockets of the impoverished workers who do the hard graft.

 

 

It's taxes and high wages that drove a lot of manufacturers away in the first place.

A third world country with high unemployement and a socially discontented populace might see it a bit differently than you do.

[Anna B]

It's taxes and high wages that drove a lot of manufacturers away in the first place.

A third world country with high unemployement and a socially discontented populace might see it a bit differently than you do.

 

But where would they go if the tax was global?

 

They only move to different (cheaper) countries because they are cheaper.

If there was no advantage in it for them, they wouldn't bother to move.

 

As it is, the Third world countries will no doubt catch up on wages eventually then the whole rigmarole will start again.

 

Now getting a global tax is probably never going to happen so we minnows had better get used to being dumped whenever it suits the big guys.

Does that thought make you happy? It doesn't me.

 

I like to think that if 'Responsible Capitalism' ever takes off, it will be to the advantage of the first world and third world alike.

[Harleyman]

But where would they go if the tax was global?

 

They only move to different (cheaper) countries because they are cheaper.

If there was no advantage in it for them, they wouldn't bother to move.

 

As it is, the Third world countries will no doubt catch up on wages eventually then the whole rigmarole will start again.

 

Now getting a global tax is probably never going to happen so we minnows had better get used to being dumped whenever it suits the big guys.

Does that thought make you happy? It doesn't me.I like to think that if 'Responsible Capitalism' ever takes off, it will be to the advantage of the first world and third world alike.

 

 

Truth to tell I'm comfortably off myself. I may not have the money Bill Gates or Mitt Romney has but I lose no sleep over that. We want for absolutely nothing, can afford the luxuries that we sometimes indulge ourselves in, have our health and a great family.

 

In the grand order of things we may be minnows but we're happy little minnows

[Rupert_Baehr]

But where would they go if the tax was global?

 

How would you go about imposing global taxes? There are problems enough when one country tries to impose its will/ideals on another. What would happen if one country (or even a group of countries) tried to dictate tax rates to the rest?

 

War, perhaps?

 

We already have GATT (now the WTO) and other trade agreements. The EU has laws which say that no member state may discriminate against the products of another member state - you can't impose a duty on goods from another member state which is higher than the duty you impose on your own, (Well, that's he theory, anyway )

 

The EU does impose import taxes on goods from non-EU countries - but there is only so far you can go with such taxes.

 

If one country can produce an item cheaper than another country, that's hard luck on the country with the higher costs. You could - if you wished - grow bananas in Sheffield. You would need to spend a lot on heating, however. It's cheaper to import bananas from elsewhere. You could do without bananas and let the farmer who grows them in that 'elsewhere' place live on a diet of bananas.

 

If one country has high costs (and in the developed world, direct labour is typically a high cost) then, if it wishes to compete, it must produce high-value items.

 

They only move to different (cheaper) countries because they are cheaper.

If there was no advantage in it for them, they wouldn't bother to move.

 

 

Or - if there really was no advantage in it for them - they could simply close the company down and go fishing. - Or buy a set of golf bats and play golf.

 

If, of course, a government in some country elsewhere decided that they actually wanted to encourage industry, they could always do so and corner the market.

 

What could anybody else do about it?