Rupert_Baehr Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 :thumbsup: You get my vote, Jim! Political parties - all of them - seem to be more interested in getting into power and once they're there, staying in power, than serving the people who pay for them to be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Graham Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Admittedly, the big battles are all behind us: free universal health care at the point of need, free education up to age 18, social housing, minimum wage, protection of employment, etc., the list goes on. However, we are at the crossroads now where all these changes are at risk of being rolled back under the coalition's ideologically driven cuts to our public services. One of the main battles for the left now is to maintain what we have and not slip back to the days where to lose your job meant no housing, no education, no health service; in fact, pretty much what happens in the USA: 41 million in poverty, no health care, tent cities and rising unemployment. Thanks, but I'd rather fight to keep the society for which our parents fought. The cuts are more economically driven than ideological. We just can't afford to be borrowing £4bn a week to keep them going. I think the left have gone too far and the battle is not to maintain what we obviously cannot afford but to find the right balance of what we need v what can afford. The challenge for the left is to make sure people don't lose their jobs by creating a sustainable economy. Something they don't know how to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert_Baehr Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 As our manufacturing industry sunk so much that the working class are now on the margins of society The UK still does have a manufacturing industry - and a highly successful manufacturing industry at that. It can't compete with other countries in high-volume low-tech manufacturing, but it's a bit premature to write off the UK as a manufacturing nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediumfast Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Banned foxhunting:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Graham Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Could you give me some examples of that; and also alongside your examples you might consider the amount of people that have benefitted from the narrower legal gains and the wider cultural changes that such legislation engendered. I think the whole "rights" movement stems from the anti discrimination laws. Too many people have taken the idea that they can't be discriminated against to mean that they have a right to something. As soon as I mention a particular cause that is abusing it's right not to be discriminated against the whole thread will deteriorate into a for and against that cause. You know very well there are certain sections of society who play the anti discrimination card very well and use it to their advantage and to the detriment of the majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Graham Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 I don't think it is so much that they're inacapable as overwhelmed. The challenges facing centre left politicians today as opposed to even 40 years ago are perhaps greater due to globalisation. The banking crisis might have been a turning point, but I think the political right are very crafty - they have been able to turn the crisis in their favour by claim that the markets didn't fail, but the state did. I can buy that argument but if a movement is being overwhelmed is that not a sign that the times they are a changing? Perhaps the reality is that social reform was a luxury we can no longer afford in the face of global economic competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien52 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I am going to play the anti discrmination card. How is your brother Biily ,Jim ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Graham Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 For one I see the benefits system as helping people who have fallen on hard times. There was a story this week of the family with an 8 bed house BUT the husband was working, is looking for work and had a large family as a result of him working and earning money. Whilst he is looking for work again the system is supporting him. The problem is that people play the system and manipulate it for all they can get. It needs someone strong to step in and withdraw benefits from people who are clearly playing it. This is what the Government are doing and it may sound harsh, but there has to be a clamp down on the questionable disabilities etc that people are claiming are reasons why they can't work. A lot of the country's problems today are the result of the building of council estates and the scrapping of grammar schools. We now have children trapped in sink estates with no chance of a better life. I think what you are saying is that the welfare state has gone too far to the point where it spends more on those who choose to do nothing than those who have tried but fallen on hard times. I know from personal experience that when I have needed the welfare state it has failed me completely. I work hard. I'm honest and I pay my taxes but when I really needed help through no fault of my own it wasn't there. But if I sat around all day do nothing I'd have the entire might of the welfare state falling all over me. I think Labour have to take responsibility for that state of affairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Graham Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 As our manufacturing industry sunk so much that the working class are now on the margins of society Who are the working class these days? In the past it generally referred to the unskilled and semi skilled in industry. As we have a lot less industry and a lot more services I am unsure who is working class. Is it now defined by how little you earn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Graham Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 take a look here http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=940683 I still fail to understand your point. Everyone in this country gets a free education, which I help pay for, that enables them to learn, develop skills and give themselves a value in the Labour market. The people you claim are being exploited are mainly those who chose not to be educated and to reduce their value to employers. There is a minimum wage topped up with tax credits which I also pay for. I fail to see how someone who turns down their opportunity to be educated and expects to get by on low paid unskilled work can moan that they are being exploited. It was their choice to be almost unemployable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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