Cyclone Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 No, A TOC runs the station. EMT. Would you propose that if you have a ticket for another operator, you should have to pay but it should be free for EMT ticket holders? No, that would be ridiculous, I'd propose that public facilities in a public building (run by a private company under license) should have continued to be free of charge as they had been for the past 40 years and as they still are at several other points in the same facility. You don't buy tickets by operating company, you buy them by destination, it's quite common that there is a choice of train to get there, so there's a complex revenue sharing system behind ticket purchases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Dishonesty. Which takes us back to where I questioned the use of this word before dis·hon·es·ty/disˈänəstē/ Noun: Deceitfulness shown in someone's character or behavior. A fraudulent or deceitful act. Are you suggesting that some deceit or fraud takes place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anywebsite Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Which takes us back to where I questioned the use of this word before Are you suggesting that some deceit or fraud takes place? Yes of course it is a fraudulent act. There is an entrance fee to use those toilets, that's why they have coin operated turnstiles. If you avoid paying to use somebody else's facilities by jumping over a barrier, what else is it? Is the barrier only there for people who can't jump? How is it any different to sneaking into a cinema, night club or a football match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy Jnr Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 By using an alternate facility that they provide they don't get the 20p, by hopping the barrier that they recently put in they don't get the 20p, what's the difference? As far as the 20p goes there's no difference at all but you appear to be happy in condoning deliberate evasion of payment by suggesting that it's ok to jump the barrier because you believe, that using a toilet should be free regardless, and remarkably you refuse to acknowledge this action as dishonest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Yes of course it is a fraudulent act. There is an entrance fee to use those toilets, that's why they have coin operated turnstiles. If you avoid paying to use somebody else's facilities by jumping over a barrier, what else is it? Is the barrier only there for people who can't jump? How is it any different to sneaking into a cinema, night club or a football match? Well, I'd have to refer you to the definition of fraud I suppose. fraud/frôd/ Noun: Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain. A person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities. If you want to suggest that using the loo is personal gain then I guess you can call it fraud and thus dishonest. Although given that the same company provides free facilities not that far away I'd say that you haven't gained anything that wasn't available for free, nor was any deception involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 As far as the 20p goes there's no difference at all but you appear to be happy in condoning deliberate evasion of payment by suggesting that it's ok to jump the barrier because you believe, that using a toilet should be free regardless, and remarkably you refuse to acknowledge this action as dishonest. I'm not refusing anything, you appear to want to redefine what dishonest means because you insist it includes this behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy Jnr Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I'm not refusing anything, you appear to want to redefine what dishonest means because you insist it includes this behaviour. No, i'm saying that it's dishonest to jump a pay for barrier in order to use a facility. If the same facilities are available for free on the platform then those are the ones you should use and that probably in a court of law would be the argument. It might even be argued that you are doing it for financial gain as you will be 20p better off than you would have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anywebsite Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Well, I'd have to refer you to the definition of fraud I suppose. If you want to suggest that using the loo is personal gain then I guess you can call it fraud and thus dishonest. Although given that the same company provides free facilities not that far away I'd say that you haven't gained anything that wasn't available for free, nor was any deception involved. It doesn't matter if other facilities are free, presumably the charge is to maintain those facilities to a higher standard. The free facilities nearby give you even less justification for jumping the barriers at the paid ones. If somebody wants to charge you to enter a room that they own, it's dishonest to try to sneak in without paying. If you don't want to pay then you shouldn't go in that particular room. Tell me how it's less dishonest than sneaking into a football match, or fare dodging on public transport. I'm not a lawyer, I don't know exactly what law you'd be breaking, but I'm sure British Transport Police will explain it to you if they catch you doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 And I looked at what the word dishonest meant, it's not a definition I made up you know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 It doesn't matter if other facilities are free, presumably the charge is to maintain those facilities to a higher standard. If somebody wants to charge you to enter a room that they own, it's dishonest to try to sneak in without paying. If you don't want to pay then you shouldn't go in that particular room. Tell me how it's less dishonest than sneaking into a football match, or fare dodging on public transport. I'm not a lawyer, I don't know exactly what law you'd be breaking, but I'm sure British Transport Police will explain it to you if they catch you doing it. EMT don't own the room. Is a football match a public convenience? I don't think I have a strong argument for this by the way, I was merely interested in the choice of words and what they meant. And I don't make a habit of using the loo in the station, so it's not an issue, given the choice though if desperate and without 20p, I'd hop the barrier rather than pee where I was stood! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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