Meditation MEGATHREAD

[onewheeldave]

I accept that. It seems to me that the benefits of meditation ought to be accessible without alien terminology.

 

I can enter meditative states, but I'm curious to know whether these are analagous to the meditative states that Buddhists,Taoists, TMers & Yogics experience.

 

But the semiotics are slippery.

 

You need terminology to pass these ideas on, and no-one is talking any kind of language I understand here.

 

When you meditate what, typically, happens to you and what do you experience?

 

 

I view meditation simply as a technology, rather than as an end in itself. And I believe it must be possible to communicate with other human beings about it without solely using metaphor, simile, poetry, scripture or invoking notional deities.

 

I'm interested in what the technology can do and what other people [on this forum] experience; particularly when the experience transcends the relatively common 'relaxation' effects associated with both meditation and breathing exercises.

 

That is the challenge for me. If it can't be talked about in plain language, if ideas cannot be exchanged without recourse to poetry, allegory, years of scriptural study or a foreign language, then its not much good to anyone.

 

Forgive the slightly polemic tone, but it generally helps to get replies.

 

You speak in the manner of many rationalists/members of the sceptical movement.

 

Not every experience can be expressed in purely rational terms- not every experience can be communicated to others in plain language.

 

The only way you're going to grasp what a person experiences when a person meditates, is to meditate.

 

And, i can tell you from experience, that if you're utterly focused on rational understanding, you're not going to have the meditation experience that someone who is not utterly focused on rational understanding will have.

 

Rationality, by definition, requires thoughts, and, the kind of meditation most here are talking about, takes place in the gaps between thoughts.

 

Thoughts that arise in meditation are best handled by a simple acknowledgement, and, a refusal to get involved with them.

 

When thoughts are acknowledged, but not entered into dialogue with, they tend to become less frequent- any other attempt to 'do' anything with thoughts, only serves to encourage them, and their frequency will increase.

 

I'd suggest you ask yourself what it is that interests you about meditation?

[johncocker]

So tell us, how would one begin to meditate? because I'm dying to get started. x

 

 

if you're serious

why not find a retreat centre ,must be one nr sheffield somewhere.

do a 4 day theravada vapassana silent retreat see if its the thing for you ,

 

maybe palirichard would know were theres one

[dutch]

Thank god there are people like dave here now putting the attention towards meditation.

[johncocker]

You speak in the manner of many rationalists/members of the sceptical movement.

 

Not every experience can be expressed in purely rational terms- not every experience can be communicated to others in plain language.

 

The only way you're going to grasp what a person experiences when a person meditates, is to meditate.

 

And, i can tell you from experience, that if you're utterly focused on rational understanding, you're not going to have the meditation experience that someone who is not utterly focused on rational understanding will have.

Rationality, by definition, requires thoughts, and, the kind of meditation most here are talking about, takes place in the gaps between thoughts.

 

Thoughts that arise in meditation are best handled by a simple acknowledgement, and, a refusal to get involved with them.

When thoughts are acknowledged, but not entered into dialogue with, they tend to become less frequent- any other attempt to 'do' anything with thoughts, only serves to encourage them, and their frequency will increase.

 

I'd suggest you ask yourself what it is that interests you about meditation?

 

whos thinking about not thinking about thinking?

[johncocker]

I agree with this, but Buddhism isn't just 'written' down, it has to be practiced, the boat has to be rowed, the finger followed etc, my whole point is that, to use your Hendrix analogy, you are not trying to sound exactly like Hendrix, but you are learning to play the guitar, and if Hendrix is your teacher your not going to learn a few chords then abandon it, which is what I see taking place in Zen, simply because people have had a guitar lesson and think that they can play Voodoo Chile, it's not necessarily the case that they can.

 

The Buddha never said he wanted you to have all his life experiences, he said that there was suffering, and his was a path that could cure that suffering, so if you wanted to be cured, follow the path, and if you didn't - well don't.

 

the four noble truths and the eightfold path

[dutch]

whos thinking about not thinking about thinking?

 

You dont' think about not thinking, you are capable of watching and observing the thinking process. When you watch and observe the thinking process it slows down and in the gaps you see who you are.

[Waldo]

@Richard.

 

I wonder where the Buddha would be, had he not gone his own way, and instead, stuck to the dogma of his day?...

 

Sounds a little preachy almost Richard. You're equating 'cured' with following the (presumably Buddhist) path, and the consequence of not following this path, to not be cured? (or an implication that you do not want to be cured, if you do not follow the path).

 

All seems based on a presumption that something wrong with us, that suffering is everywhere, and we need curing. It sounds very dogmatic and divisive (in a, you'll go to hell if you don't follow our way of doing things, type way) to me. Do you not feel as if you're just reiterating dogma Richard?

[TJC1]

if you're serious

why not find a retreat centre ,must be one nr sheffield somewhere.

do a 4 day theravada vapassana silent retreat see if its the thing for you ,

 

maybe palirichard would know were theres one

 

Totally serious. Been thinking about this for months.

 

I will look out for a retreat then I guess.

[TJC1]

Find a quiet space, sit still with upright spine, either crossed-legged on a cushion, or on the edge of a chair.

 

Attention inwards, watch the mind. Don't try to 'not think'- that's futile. Just watch, notice how thoughts/emotions arise naturally, aspire to not 'add' to them.

 

i.e. don't judge the arising mental states as being bad (or good), just note their existence and then go back to watching the mind.

 

You will get pulled into getting involved with them, maybe for minutes at a time. When you become aware that you've been distracted by getting involved in a trian of thoughts/feelings, simply let them go and return to watching the mind.

 

Don't judge yourself as being 'bad' or 'weak minded' for continually getting pulled into these trains of thoughts/feelings- it's natural and normal: one thing we learn from meditation is how little control we have over our own minds.

 

With many, many hours of such practice you will start to be more aware of the gaps between thoughts, and, over time, these will become more prominent, and the thoughts/feelings lesser. Till the next day, when, for no apparent reason, the mind will chatter like a monkey again

 

I'll try this. Thanks for the practical info!

[TJC1]

That depends on your goal. Yoga, tai chi, chi gong and sitting are all forms of meditation. Let me know what you want to acheive and I will give you a method.

 

If you just want to feel nice and at one with the universe ask someone else though, alas I cant help you with that.

 

Any tips for calmness, relaxation and becoming more centred?

 

If you have any tips on that in terms of meditation be much appreciated.

 

x