Meditation MEGATHREAD

[best sheff]

I would love to learn how to meditate, but not have to learn Buddhism in the deal. Buddhism sounds nice and calming, but still a form of religion.

 

So my question, if there anywhere you can attend to learn meditation without any religious element at all?

[onewheeldave]

Counting numbers while breathing is a mental exercise that cleans the mind or rubbish and other crap through focussing on the mind. Many meditative exercises are made or can be mistakenly used to think you are meditating while you are just flushing the toilet.

 

You cannot use your own or any mind to go beyond itself!

If you do use mind focus exercises you will always miss the opportunity to "experience" meditation.

 

Genuine meditation is not genuine! It does not belong in the world of genuine and false. Nobody knows what meditation is. When it is there you cannot claim you know it. You can say you experience meditation but knowledge is part of a world that does not connect with meditation.

Its genuiity comes from tiring out all effords until a gap arises in silence, these gaps grow, efford stops slowly and meditation enters your life effordless without looking for for it. As soon as you look for it meditation is gone. If you want to know it you will never know, the person wanting to know will be the very blockage to meditation.

 

Focusing with awareness on the witnissing part of your awareness is the best and cleanest place to start if you dont know yet how to be in a state of emptiness, silence.

 

You have to discover meditation by allowing it to come while the person you call "you, me" is away, asleep while what I call you and the human awareness of the total existence is awake.

 

Can't sell it at the market. Can't get a ticket or subscription to meditation.

I can tell you it is a lot better, free, independant, than what most people out there think life is.

 

Draggletail, I am not enlightened but something happened and I can fully understand why roshi baker said that

“Enlightenment is an accident. Meditation makes you accident prone.”

 

A couple of quibbles with that

 

I asked you to define meditation purely cos you were saying what some others on this thread thought was meditation, actually wasn't.

 

Above you say "Nobody knows what meditation is"- which obviously means that you don't know what it is either.

 

Which is fine, but, as someone who admits they don't know what meditation is, it would appear to be difficult for you to critisise others ideas of what meditation is.

 

Thing is, you clearly seem to be coming from the direction of either the neo-advaita tradition, or, something very similar: a tradition which usually considers meditation to not be a useful tool for the spiritual path, on the grounds that to meditate is to miss the point.

 

i.e. from the neo-advaita perspective, the ultimate reality cannot be experienced by doing anything with the mind, or by trying to 'grasp' anything with the mind: from that perspective, it's actually only the mind itself (or ego) that is actually clouding ultimate reality in the first place.

 

You appear to be identifying meditation with 'the gap in silence that grows...'?

 

Whereas other traditions like zen etc, identify meditation with a well defined set of techniques (specific posture- straight back sitting and observation of ones mind whilst not getting involved with thoughts/emotions that arise etc), rather than an experience (or absense of experience).

 

i.e. to put it in simplistic terms, many traditions speak of 'meditation' and 'enlightenment' as 2 distinct things. As, I believe, do most of the people on this thread.

 

So, if patricia considers meditation to be something like that (specific posture- straight back sitting and observation of ones mind whilst not getting involved with thoughts/emotions that arise etc), then, it is certain that she is in fact 'doing' meditation.

 

Neo-advaita is fine- for those who are interested in that aspect of spiritual path: but, it's really not for everyone- some people are just interested in meditation as defined above.

 

Not everyone wants 'enlightenment' or to experience ultimate reality- some aren't even interested in spirituality at all and just want to use meditation for it's well known effects concerning calmness and gaining some freedom from some of the more negative aspects of mind/ego.

 

I just don't think it's useful for you to claim that they're not 'really' meditating.

[PaliRichard]

I would love to learn how to meditate, but not have to learn Buddhism in the deal. Buddhism sounds nice and calming, but still a form of religion.

 

So my question, if there anywhere you can attend to learn meditation without any religious element at all?

 

Look on the does anyone meditate thread.

 

Meditation comes in various forms, it isn't exclusively Buddhist. Buddhist meditation deals with enlightenment, which is an an exclusively Buddhist concept, and all Buddhist meditation is geared towards this.

 

Yoga, Chi Gung, breath excercises and visualization excercises are all forms of non Buddhist meditation, and all have different outcomes, you should first decide on your goal before choosing your method. Some people want a more concentrated mind, some want a nice feeling of fuzzy awareness, some want mind/body to feel harmonized, some want unbinding (enlightenment). Choose your goal, then look for your method.

[dutch]

Have fun quibbling dave.

 

If you look for meditation it wil come when you stop looking and quible over it. It does not matter which era, tradidition, master, when meditation comes it leaves all traditions, era's behind.

I can say that with certainty as it is my personal experience! Have seen the silences of meditation with my own eyes.

Goodbye era's and traditions, I live today, now, here.

 

Most people use meditation as a tranquilizer to flush their minds of dirty rubbish, a good cleanup.

 

I don't claim nothing and laugh at your statement of really meditating. Meditating is not real or unreal. If you want you can reach beautifull inner silences, if you want you can flush the toilet. It does not matter, both are real, both are meditations.

One brings you eternal silence, the other temporary relief and belief you did something good.

 

The fact you "compete" proves you have not experienced meditation yet, dave.

You can say what you want but you are still struggling, religions, beliefs, eras are high on your mind.

 

If meditation brings you an open door, a gate, a silence for meditation to come and enter. It is very different from a world ruled and controlled by mind.

It will come, it is there for everybody that really wants it. Nobody is exempt if they are "authentic" in wanting meditation.

 

I don't play games, I close my eyes and allow my technique (don't care who's technique or other technical detail under the motorcap of it).

Witnissing, watching, breathing, aware of all thoughts, feelings, keep watching, awake, aware.

It is not a competition. No goal to reach. It is meaningless. Meditation does not make you higher or better than the worst people out there.

While sitting, watching, the noise slows down, gaps arise, it gets quiter, bigger gaps. Patience and willingness to let go of old habbits, habbits that are essential to survive in this mad world while living unconsciously.

Then loose control and let nature take its own way, you may think you know better but it is that mind that is trying to save itself from disappearing into silences, mind is scared.

Meditation takes you further and further to silence, mind struggles, quibbles, holds on to eras, perspectives, traditions (zen, peop, moon tradition it does not matter which one).

 

Meditation is authentic for everyone. It is at the level where they are at. You can be at any level instantly as long as you are ready for it, it is not a study, competition. It is an experience with many surprises!

[onewheeldave]

Have fun quibbling dave.

 

If you look for meditation it wil come when you stop looking and quible over it. It does not matter which era, tradidition, master, when meditation comes it leaves all traditions, era's behind.

I can say that with certainty as it is my personal experience! Have seen the silences of meditation with my own eyes.

Goodbye era's and traditions, I live today, now, here.

 

Most people use meditation as a tranquilizer to flush their minds of dirty rubbish, a good cleanup.

 

I don't claim nothing and laugh at your statement of really meditating. Meditating is not real or unreal. If you want you can reach beautifull inner silences, if you want you can flush the toilet. It does not matter, both are real, both are meditations.

One brings you eternal silence, the other temporary relief and belief you did something good.

 

The fact you "compete" proves you have not experienced meditation yet, dave.

You can say what you want but you are still struggling, religions, beliefs, eras are high on your mind.

 

If meditation brings you an open door, a gate, a silence for meditation to come and enter. It is very different from a world ruled and controlled by mind.

It will come, it is there for everybody that really wants it. Nobody is exempt if they are "authentic" in wanting meditation.

 

I don't play games, I close my eyes and allow my technique (don't care who's technique or other technical detail under the motorcap of it).

Witnissing, watching, breathing, aware of all thoughts, feelings, keep watching, awake, aware.

It is not a competition. No goal to reach. It is meaningless. Meditation does not make you higher or better than the worst people out there.

While sitting, watching, the noise slows down, gaps arise, it gets quiter, bigger gaps. Patience and willingness to let go of old habbits, habbits that are essential to survive in this mad world while living unconsciously.

Then loose control and let nature take its own way, you may think you know better but it is that mind that is trying to save itself from disappearing into silences, mind is scared.

Meditation takes you further and further to silence, mind struggles, quibbles, holds on to eras, perspectives, traditions (zen, peop, moon tradition it does not matter which one).

 

Meditation is authentic for everyone. It is at the level where they are at. You can be at any level instantly as long as you are ready for it, it is not a study, competition. It is an experience with many surprises!

 

I'm not quibbling and I'm not competing.

 

pot, kettle and black springs to mind when you mention competing- I'm not the one who declared that several people on this thread aren't 'meditating' when they describe their experiences of meditation.

 

Was I was doing was pointing out the fact that most people who meditate, make a clear disctinction between the act/techniques of meditation (posture, breathing etc) and, the intended goal of meditation (whether that's seen as enlightenment or just a calmer mind).

 

Whereas you seem to consider the 2 things to be the same, and, on that basis, make your claim that certain people on this thread don't understand meditation.

 

I'll also point out that, contrary to what you say above, I am not 'struggling' and that 'religions, beliefs, eras' are not high on my mind.

 

[Mrs Overall]

Someone mentioned Meditation Oasis somewhere.. I've used that for a month to start me off, it's very good, I would certainly recommend it for someone starting out...

Now I can meditate just by closing my eyes and breathing slowly and deeply...

[Mecky]

I did Tai Chi, which is a motional form of meditation, for many years when I played golf because I found that it helped my turning and balance.

[best sheff]

So true. Time to wake up and smell the roses. Just watched a large bumble bee buzzin round my plants. Ive never noticed this before.

 

Wow, Pattricia, I have read through all posts and have one big headache. That was heavy reading, my mind is spinning, hope the meditation process doesn't leave my mind spinning like it is now.

 

On a serious note, your thread has convinced me I'd like to try this, (god help me) So I have been on Amazon and bought the book 'The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment'. Your thread as now cost me money. I have tried meditation before, but was with a group of, well wasn't aware of actual nature / religion, but got a bit heavy and backed out, this was many years ago. If i'm correct your doing it alone and without any beliefs attached, just relaxing the mind. I'm now ready to try this, "you have opened a can of worms in my mind".

 

May the force be with me!

[janie48]

Really feeling the benifits now.I've felt much more relaxed this week,and feel more energetic.

[pattricia]

Wow, Pattricia, I have read through all posts and have one big headache. That was heavy reading, my mind is spinning, hope the meditation process doesn't leave my mind spinning like it is now.

 

On a serious note, your thread has convinced me I'd like to try this, (god help me) So I have been on Amazon and bought the book 'The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment'. Your thread as now cost me money. I have tried meditation before, but was with a group of, well wasn't aware of actual nature / religion, but got a bit heavy and backed out, this was many years ago. If i'm correct your doing it alone and without any beliefs attached, just relaxing the mind. I'm now ready to try this, "you have opened a can of worms in my mind".

 

May the force be with me!

 

Meditation is definitely worthwhile. Im much more relaxed now, and dont worry about things as much. The Power Of Now is pretty heavy reading, and takes some understanding, but like meditation you have to stick with it.