Meditation MEGATHREAD

[dutch]

Well, you've just declared 3 things right there

 

 

 

 

Nevertheless, I do understand meditation- earlier in this thread I gave a consise summary of it. Meditation, in the sense of the word used by everyone in this thread with the exception of you, is simply adopting a specific bodily position (out of several options) and directing the mind in a specific direction (again, with several options).

 

There are many online instructions for meditation, describing suitable postures and where to direct the attention etc- several people on this thread have been using those instructions to try meditation out.

 

Meditation is very simple, easily defined and certainly can be spoken of in rational terms.

 

Spiritual experiences, in contrast, are very different, and, often, not subject to rational analysis- I'm guessing that by 'meditation' you're referring to those type of things?

 

Fair enough, use the word 'meditation' however you like, but it just so happens that it's not how everyone else is using it.

 

Hahaha thats great, love it!

 

Like I said, a decleration only seperates smaller details from the whole and that is only possible at the level of our seperating talking mind.

No matter how seperating my statements may sound their seperation is only an illusion of our thinking minds. In existence everything comes together.

No matter what I say, no matter how intense, the opposite is always present and connected to it. The more intense the extreme of expression the more extreme the opposite is present.

Declaration is an illusion.

 

The technique is extremely helpfull but! It is the meditator that makes the technique work.

The technique cannot turn someone into a awake aware meditator!

A genuine thirst and longing for meditation and the wrong technique will not stop someone from finding meditation.

The best technique from internet and a lazy sleepy person will not wake up.

 

Dangerous thinking the technique will save your live, it is only a crutch, the meditator has to be present and aware all the time. Witnessing, watching, the technique is only a help.

 

Real experiences cannot be rationilised or analised. It is impossible, it takes them immediately to a world of dreams and fantasies that is asleep and unconsious.

 

Many people have stopped meditating thinking the technique would do it for them.

[Kadogo]

Tai Chi has been found to lower the blood pressure, and give people better balance.

 

And its number 38, with Special Fried Rice, is very tasty also.

[pattricia]

And its number 38, with Special Fried Rice, is very tasty also.

 

Crispy pork balls are quite good.

[janie48]

Crispy pork balls are quite good.

 

Saucy?

[Rupert_Baehr]

I did Tai Chi, which is a motional form of meditation, for many years when I played golf because I found that it helped my turning and balance.

 

If there's a message there, I'd be grateful if you would help me to sub-package it in such a way that I can make a fortune out of providing vital therapy to those depraved (or was it deprived?) individuals I'm not being paid to communicate with.

 

Tai Chi has been found to lower the blood pressure, and give people better balance.

 

How much does it cost? - If it's so good, is it readily available on the NHS?

 

If not - why not?

 

Well, you've just declared 3 things right there

 

Nevertheless, I do understand meditation- earlier in this thread I gave a consise summary of it. Meditation, in the sense of the word used by everyone in this thread with the exception of you, is simply adopting a specific bodily position (out of several options) and directing the mind in a specific direction (again, with several options).

 

There are many online instructions for meditation, describing suitable postures and where to direct the attention etc- several people on this thread have been using those instructions to try meditation out.

 

Meditation is very simple, easily defined and certainly can be spoken of in rational terms.

 

Spiritual experiences, in contrast, are very different, and, often, not subject to rational analysis- I'm guessing that by 'meditation' you're referring to those type of things?

 

Fair enough, use the word 'meditation' however you like, but it just so happens that it's not how everyone else is using it.

 

Interesting. I let my mind go where it will. It works for me.

[PaliRichard]

 

How much does it cost? - If it's so good, is it readily available on the NHS?

 

http://www.wutaichi.co.uk/research.php

 

Look at this, you may/may not find it interesting. I don't know what they're like personally, my old tai chi instructor certainly spoke highly of David Barrow, although that was a different 'style' of tai chi.

 

I do know that the NHS in Sheffield use(d) the above for helping heart attack victims to recover (because my friend went to them) I'm not sure if/how they are funded by the NHS though.

 

Regarding meditation in general, it is regularly recommended by GPs for all sorts of things.

[PaliRichard]

dutch

 

Due to a lovely pm I received from a poster on this thread yesterday I have decided to rejoin it, because I do have a lot to offer to it and upon reflection leaving because I feel like I am being constantly harassed is not the correct thing to do.

 

This does require however that I address a few issues.

 

Please do not take this as argumentative - it is not my intention, I do/have wanted to genuinly converse with you but I have found it difficult to do so.

 

So what I am going to do is this - I am going to address my points to you so that you have an opportunity to respond. If, however, you refuse to respond in a straightforward manner, that is, if you do not directly address the issues I raise I will simply 'let it go', I will make no further posts to you directly.

 

If you do wish to engage then I am happy to do so, if however you do what you previously did when I tried to leave our unproductive bickering and constantly jump on posts I made which were not addressed to you just to say 'Richard is wrong' then I will take a step I was previously reluctant to do - and that is report you to the mods.

 

I am going to be as honest as I can, let me stress again that I have nothing personally against you and you are entitled to your opinion, it is not your opinion I take issue with, nor what you consider to be meditation - it is your constant belittling of those who don't share your opinion I have the issue with.

 

I consider that you are mistaken in what you experience. I think that what you think of as meditation is exactly that, thinking. A construct based on those philosophers you have read/heard and either their opinion or their direct experience of meditation.

 

I don't say this lightly, and I apologise if I am repeating what I said earlier in the thread but I will amalgamate it here to make my case as simply as I can.

 

• Anyone who has read philosophers such as Alan Watts or J. Krishnamurti can make posts like yours about meditation without having actually 'experienced' it.
  
• It is your incoherance when asked about specifics of your claimed experience that leads me to the above conclusion, I will address those specifics below.
  
• You have already demonstrated that you are familiar with the 'style' of that philosophy of meditation by posting links/mentioning teachers who you consider have acheived that meditation.
  
• You said to meditate we should be like children. I said I assumed you meant children before they had developed an identity, which you neither acknowledged or denied. I put to you a similar scenario of people with brain impendiments who can perform everyday tasks without an awareness of them. I pointed out that this, and your children point could not be what you were referring to as in your description of meditation you said that there is an 'experiencer', none of the two previous categories of people have that concious 'experiencer', therefore I do not believe your analogy to be accurate. At leat two other posters have asked you about the difficulty of this position, the problem of this mysterious 'third person' who experiences the meditation, you have failed to address any of us in a conherant manner regarding the question.
  
• You have mentioned several times your dislike of religion in meditation - and that is fair enough, you're not the only one on this thread who thinks that. You have however made several rather confusing statements. You have mentioned both 'satori' and enlightenment several times. Enlightenment is a purely Buddhist construct, it is part of Buddhism - specific to it. How can you reconcile your belief in enlightenment with your non belief in Buddhism? If you don't believe in Buddhism you shouldn't acknowledge enlightenment. If you do believe in enlightenment you should acknowledge Buddhism. In no other system/setting is the idea of enlightenment to be found - the very fact you acknowledge one without the other shows your basic ignorance of both.
  

 

Regarding the last point, before I get jumped on. I am fully aware that the 'path', 'concept', etc of Buddhism has to be dropped before enlightenment is reached, that is not my point.

 

My point is that other meditative systems do not have the 'goal' of enlightenment, they have various ends that their meditation leads to, be it union with Brahma (the one I think your description is most akin to) or eternal life or whatever. Enlightenment is a purely Buddhist 'construct'. A term for the complete unbinding of stress. It has nothing to do with the being one with the universe that you seem to be talking about, and it is this confusion of terminology that leads me to believe you are following the ideas of others rather than experiencing these states for yourself.

 

I am aware that I have been quite exhaustive there, and apologise to both you and other users for the length of this post, but I would rather it all be in one place for you to address if you wish to do so. I'm sure I've also missed some things out, but that's my problem and I wont return to them later, this is it now, you may choose to do with it what you will.

[pattricia]

Nice to see you back Richard. I had been wondering where you were.!!

[PaliRichard]

Thankyou Pattricia.

 

I hope your meditation is still having a positive effect. Are you still using the breath as focus or have you experimented with different methods?

[pattricia]

Thankyou Pattricia.

 

I hope your meditation is still having a positive effect. Are you still using the breath as focus or have you experimented with different methods?

 

I am still using the method as first taught to me by yourself (counting one to ten) I now meditate when I have a spare moment outside. Like waiting in the queue at The Yokshire Bank this morning for 20 mins. !!!:rant: (it kept me calm)